Report: Toyota 86 / FR-S Sedan still coming (with 100mm longer wheelbase)

[fr-sTony]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I think it looks nice, but honestly, I didn't see anyone asking for this. Nobody ever looks at my car and says, "well, it would look better if you made it a hatchback (I know, I know, shooting-brake), or a sedan".

But they do tell me it would be a sexy convertible and I think that the thing that prevented a lot of people from buying was the power. If (and this is a big if) these rumors are true, then I would be interested in finding out who Toyota is talking to.

How about a liftback/hatchback version? The lines are already there. It would look similar to the shooting-brake but be easier to load. Anyone?

Power shmouwer! Give it a rest.
No hatchback version please. I want a version I can drift after I drop the kids at school.
Not that you can't drift a hatch, but it just looks weird if you do. To me.

[fr-sTony]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I think it looks nice, but honestly, I didn't see anyone asking for this. Nobody ever looks at my car and says, "well, it would look better if you made it a hatchback (I know, I know, shooting-brake), or a sedan".

But they do tell me it would be a sexy convertible and I think that the thing that prevented a lot of people from buying was the power. If (and this is a big if) these rumors are true, then I would be interested in finding out who Toyota is talking to.

How about a liftback/hatchback version? The lines are already there. It would look similar to the shooting-brake but be easier to load. Anyone?

I 'm kinda asking for it.
They're not asking us(******** forum members).

[fr-sTony]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Meh, manufacturers like to have similar styling cues across their models, helps make them easily identifiable, it seems like the LFA is the baseline for Toyota's near term styling.

no it's not.

[fr-sTony]

Those big stupid looking triangle brake vents are not in the future of these beasts(2-door or 4-door).

[Wolfking]

I welcome a decent looking inexpensive sedan. If the FRS sedan is anything like our coupes, then I like it already! I'm looking for something in the same class, which outclasses the Civic Si sedan. (I often miss my 2009) "BRING IT!"

[rice_classic]

They spent a damn fortune to make this car. Brand new engine and chassis and transmission and it wasn't all for a car that's going to sell like a Civic or an Optima. Toyota/FHI need to make this thing profitable. The best way to do that is expand it into something more people want.

There are people that want convertible sports cars, 4 door rwd sports cars, rwd sports wagons/shooting brake (that'd be me) and so on and so forth. It would be economic myopia to not expand the platform. It's not only a moral imperative, it's a financial one and frankly it's one that we should be embracing and I'm ashamed that there's people here who are poo-pooing the idea of more rwd sports options being available.

The sedan is in obvious demand. I'm at that (unfortunate) age where now every one of my friends are married and working on their 1st or 2nd child and they all looked at the car and said the same thing right away: "Can't get much in those backs seats can you?"

A Sedan means a car like this can still be sold to guys like that.

[OrangeJuleas]

Not that I would have a problem with a sedan version of the car, but the logic is strange:

"We want to build a lightweight sports car that is a throwback to a car that has become a drift icon. We will market it through Scion in NA because to us, it is a young person's car, and will help reinvigorate the Toyota brand in other countries."

"Yeah, but can we also make it a heavier family sedan without any of the characteristics of the AE86/2000GT/Sports 800 on which it was based?"

"Sure, and while we're at it, let's convince Mazda to build a four door Miata too. I mean, cheap fun RWD convertibles aren't in demand. How about a Mustang sedan? I mean, who doesn't want a Mustang with a decent-size back seat?"

@nos145, I feel like dropping a V6 in there would essentially change the car entirely (not to mention added weight, higher center of gravity, etc...)

@rice_classic, I'm not saying they shouldn't expand the platform. But going to a sedan version is going in a different direction. They should expand into the natural segments for a car of this type. Hatch/Lift, Convertible, Turbo - those are all things that can make a fun RWD Grand Touring Coupe even more fun. Also, one of the reasons this car can be sold without all the "bells and whistles" is that at its heart, it is a sports car. Obviously, turning this into a family sedan will need to add a lot of stuff to it standard to make it compete with other sedans that are just fully loaded. If you don't see this happening, look at the Panamera. They took an iconic sports car and made it a sedan, and while the driving dynamics are somewhat similar to a 911, inside it is more like a Cayenne. That is how I feel about this. Maybe not selling out, and definitely not an inferior product, but you lose the heart behind it.

It would instantly lose all of its heritage is what I'm saying. They might as well call it the New RWD Corolla Sport. I don't understand why you all say it's in demand, unless you are saying there aren't any sporty sedans on the market, or that they all look terrible. What demand? The only demand I saw was that there were people who wanted affordable RWD coupes that looked good. They hit the nail on the head and now we want to make it a grocery getter?

FWIW, I drove a hatchback before this car and a sedan before it. I understand wanting more space, but this is not the chassis to do it on. It was purpose-built car. If they were going to make a sedan (on top of all the other Toyota sedans, then I would see them doing it to the tC, because that is the model that needs a serious refresh.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I don't understand why you all say it's in demand, unless you are saying there aren't any sporty sedans on the market, or that they all look terrible. What demand? The only demand I saw was that there were people who wanted affordable RWD coupes that looked good. They hit the nail on the head and now we want to make it a grocery getter?

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[DougNuts]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I don't understand why you all say it's in demand, unless you are saying there aren't any sporty sedans on the market, or that they all look terrible. What demand? The only demand I saw was that there were people who wanted affordable RWD coupes that looked good. They hit the nail on the head and now we want to make it a grocery getter?

FWIW, I drove a hatchback before this car and a sedan before it. I understand wanting more space, but this is not the chassis to do it on. It was purpose-built car. If they were going to make a sedan (on top of all the other Toyota sedans, then I would see them doing it to the tC, because that is the model that needs a serious refresh.

How do you know there is no demand?

I don't know of any (new) 4-door RWD cars that are less than 3000lbs, if that helps explain what I'm looking for.

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by DougNuts

How do you know there is no demand?

I don't know of any (new) 4-door RWD cars that are less than 3000lbs, if that helps explain what I'm looking for.

So you're looking for a cheap sedan, with more room in the back (which means it needs to be extended, with the same handling characteristics of a Grand Tourer? It will also have to be more comfortable, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of making it a sedan. That adds weight and pretty soon you end up with a Corolla with a facelift and a $35,000 price tag.

You're right, there may be demand for it, but I don't think people will want to pay 30K+ for it. And I have to ask the question again, if people wanted a RWD sport sedan, why is Porsche the only one to make one? And yes, I know there were cars in the 1970's and 1980's that met the criteria, but this is 2013.

2013 Corolla curb weight = 2,800–2,866 lb
E90 ('87-'92) Corolla curb weight = 2,390 lb

We would have to go back to those levels of simplicity to achieve a sub-3,000 lb. sedan.

[aCab]

Will you all just shut the hell up. As an owner of one of these cars right now, you all disgrace me as "enthusiasts". Everyone thinks they are right, nobody wants to admit their stance is wrong, that's a given.

The coupe isn't going anywhere, what's the big deal? Don't like it, don't buy it. Car makers have been doing this sort of thing for a long time. Those that are surprised or appalled clearly haven't been paying attention. Use your heads people, stop making yourselves look like immature children.

[aCab]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

And I have to ask the question again, if people wanted a RWD sport sedan, why is Porsche the only one to make one? And yes, I know there were cars in the 1970's and 1980's that met the criteria, but this is 2013.

.

Infinity G35/37 sport sedan, based off the g35 coupe/350z - sold well
Lexus IS300 - IS250/350
Cadillac ATS

There are tons of RWD sport sedans

Do you not look around at the market? :wtf: are you talking about

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by aCab

Infinity G35/37 sport sedan, based off the g35 coupe/350z - sold well
Lexus IS300 - IS250/350
Cadillac ATS

There are tons of RWD sport sedans

Do you not look around at the market? :wtf: are you talking about

Those are all luxury sedans, not sport sedans. Infiniti is Nissan's high-end division. Cadillac is GM's high-end division. Lexus is Toyota's high-end division, and you have said right here that they already have a RWD "sporty" sedan. Do you think they want to compete with themselves?

MSRP of an IS250 is right around $35K if I'm not mistaken. Toyota doesn't need two of the same vehicle.

And another thing @aCab, we are not arguing, this is a debate. If you don't like debate, then why did you join a forum? Please don't be condescending to people who are just sharing their viewpoints. I am not saying I'm right and that there is no room for a car in this segment. We are all speculating by the very nature of this conversation. I was just putting forth my opinion that Toyota should venture in another direction, rather than the sedan.

[DougNuts]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

Those are all luxury sedans, not sport sedans. Infiniti is Nissan's high-end division. Cadillac is GM's high-end division. Lexus is Toyota's high-end division, and you have said right here that they already have a RWD "sporty" sedan.

FWD is cheaper and more efficient, that's why most RWD cars are in categories that can command more money.

I agree with aCab, if someone thinks Toyota is going to ruin something by not sharing this chassis with other body styles, they are probably young, naive and not a true car enthusiast.