BRZs at TMP (Cayuga)

[mrceltic]

Originally Posted by Zoomby_U

Yeah the open track days on Wednesday and Friday are quite crazy as there are lot of idiots who come out and drive way beyond their abilities. Last time we were out a GT3 decided he would pass us on the inside going into turn 3/4 ... we literally missed by inches and he got quite a earful! The private sessions are definitely the way to go as they typically a lot safer with less egos!


Cheers,
Zoomby_U

Seemed like people didn't want to get passed, would push way beyond their ability trying to stay ahead of faster cars/drivers, resulted in lots of spins and cars off track. I spent half the day waving faster cars by me, didn't make me feel like less of a man.

Highlight of the day was watching some clown from Brampton spin his Civic just prior to the straight, and then drive the wrong way on the track to get to the pits. He came with a large group of friends, none of them were any smarter.

And I don't know if it was isolated or not, but I was shocked by the lack of marshals at Cayuga, no safety meeting, little supervision and a bunch of 20 year olds... No surprise it ended in a circus.

[Zoomby_U]

Yeah there is no marshaling at all on the Wed-Fri open days ... lots of idiots drifting the final corner onto the straight and almost losing it ... but they still don't black flag them. I've had two people lose it in front of me this year and I was giving them plenty of room (3-4 car lengths) ... guess when they see an Exige behind them, they want to feel like a hero and say they kept pace. They don't have the common sense to know that people don't want their prized race car to be taken out by some $hit box ... lol!


Cheers,
Zoomby_U

[mrceltic]

Had some POS Porsche blow his oil cooler first lap, marshal didn't give him a black flag for two more laps (after we told him to)... 45 minute wait to absorb the oil that had spilled around almost the entire track.

On the bright side the guys friend showed up in a brand new Ferrari which he promptly put in the grass three times trying to fend off the Miatas and RX8's.

[tanner]

Originally Posted by mrceltic

And I don't know if it was isolated or not, but I was shocked by the lack of marshals at Cayuga, no safety meeting, little supervision and a bunch of 20 year olds... No surprise it ended in a circus.

One of these days luck is going to run out and something bad is going to happen there.

I've seen a few wrecks at Mosport (there with credentials) and have had a few too many close calls myself... I just don't understand how people can stand right up against that wall, especially when that Subaru hit the hay bale at a CSCS event a few years ago and flipped.

[tanner]

Originally Posted by mrceltic

Pads seem fine, some slight glazing but nothing I needed to worry too much about, they will need replacements for next season though. Was thinking about Hawk pads, but will check out Ferodo as well...

What are they like for noise, and more importantly dust?

I have Hawks on my A4 and have noticed considerably less dust, almost none in fact compared to the OEMs which was pretty bad. The thing to remember with the Hawks is the tradeoff, as mentioned by the independent mechanic I use, less dust means more wear on the rotors, while the stock pads will create more dust than the Hawks but does less wear and tear on the rotors.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by tanner

One of these days luck is going to run out and something bad is going to happen there.

I've seen a few wrecks at Mosport (there with credentials) and have had a few too many close calls myself... I just don't understand how people can stand right up against that wall, especially when that Subaru hit the hay bale at a CSCS event a few years ago and flipped.

i've seen rollovers happen in front and behind me... one time saw a marshal get hit by a sliding car through my rear view mirror

and this is during lapping!

shit's real

but unfortunetly, and i'm not afraid to say this, the majority of people into this "car culture" have a very limited understanding of biology, physics and the general interconnection and of matter and events in our three dimensional universe.....

it's all fun and games until someone loses a toe, but they won't even blame themselves when they do, they'll blame the track, the other drivers, hell they'll even blame the car, but never themselves

they'll slave at their job until they fix it, and then they will be back out again.


this is why race events with very minimal rules have flourished, cuz fuck the rules, right?

Track owners don't give a fuck.

Most event organizers don't give a fuck, until something bad happens, then they shit bricks until everythign blows over then they go back to not giving a fuck.

ohh well.

[mrceltic]

So, to summarize... Many of the drivers, most of the spectators and a few track officials aren't very bright. Got it.

Are you guys involved with any sports car "clubs"? I'm new to this type of vehicle, and the events for them, and while I've enjoyed it immensely I wonder if autox might attract a more mature crowd? And access to private lapping days would be nice too.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

this is why race events with very minimal rules have flourished, cuz fuck the rules, right?

Track owners don't give a fuck.

Most event organizers don't give a fuck, until something bad happens, then they shit bricks until everythign blows over then they go back to not giving a fuck.

ohh well.

The part I don't get is how this can happen without insurance costs skyrocketing. Sure you sign a waiver and all but in the end doesn't the venue need to have insurance to run and doesn't that get affected (ie: go up) when crap like what you quoted happens?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by mrceltic

Pads seem fine, some slight glazing but nothing I needed to worry too much about, they will need replacements for next season though. Was thinking about Hawk pads, but will check out Ferodo as well...

What are they like for noise, and more importantly dust?

I use Amsoil 600 brake fluid, but I have to cross the border for it, might see how the ATE stacks up. Thanks for the tips.

I'm just shocked you were able to boil the fluid before overheating the pads.

The Ferodo's aren't noisy, but they are quite dusty. The dust comes off easily with VERY light scrubbing with a sponge, but there's a lot of it.

[mrceltic]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I'm just shocked you were able to boil the fluid before overheating the pads.

The Ferodo's aren't noisy, but they are quite dusty. The dust comes off easily with VERY light scrubbing with a sponge, but there's a lot of it.

Even the dealership thought they were okay? I worried about the same thing, don't know if it means the pads are better than expected, or the fluid is worse than I thought? Either way happy to be able to split the bill up a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback re: pads. Leaning towards the Hawk HP; seem like a good combo of increased stopping power without excessive brake dust.

[wparsons]

How sure are you that you boiled the fluid? Did the pedal go totally soft, or did the brakes just not have the same bite?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Frost

The part I don't get is how this can happen without insurance costs skyrocketing. Sure you sign a waiver and all but in the end doesn't the venue need to have insurance to run and doesn't that get affected (ie: go up) when crap like what you quoted happens?

there are two types of event insurance

track insurance, (which is included in your rental fee), pretty much universal and only covers damage competitors or organizers do to the track.

and event/liability insurance - this is what would cover the organizer in the event that a competitior or spectator suing the organizer

if you haven't already guessed, the latter isn't even mandatory... i would be very surprised if the guys who run Battle Endless or Touge, for instance, have their own liability insurance.


The insurance would only go up if there was a claim, so when the Imprezza flipped at CSCS, if no one filed a report to the insurance company, then nothing gets done... a gentleman's agreement so to speak.



now, the important thing to keep in mind is that (and i MAY be wrong.. but i don't think i am) is that Liability insurance at most of these events does NOT extend to the spectator or competitor.

That means if you t-bone someone and they sue you for damages, you'll be defending out of your own pocket.


and, again, as far as i know, being a member of CASC-OR and participating in CASC-OR events (time attack, ice racing, autocross, road racing and limited forms of rallying) is the only venue where you would ALSO be covered by their insurance in the event of a liability claim.

So if you KILL someone at a CASC event, you will have support from CASC in defending a lawsuit (lawyers, settlement damges, etc)

I don't think i can say the same for CSCS or Sigma or similar... but their representatives are free to chime in.


This is the harsh reality and danger of track driving in loosely governed competition events or "simple" lapping days.


Yes, CASC events make you fill out more paperwork.
Yes, CASC events force you to pay a slighly higher first-time fee (purchase of anual CASC membership + requirement of joining a CASC-Affiliated Car Club)
Yes, CASC makes you fill out a slightly longer registration form
Yes, CASC makes you go through tech and scruitineering at every event
Yes, CASC forces you to ride with an instructor (free of charge) during lapping until you are signed off and deemed competent and safe

but what you get in return is worth it's weight in gold


so.. happy racing, and stay safe

[mrceltic]

Originally Posted by wparsons

How sure are you that you boiled the fluid? Did the pedal go totally soft, or did the brakes just not have the same bite?

Lost bite, about half the grab? Never came back, even the next day still had the same feel. Changed the fluid and brakes came back, almost to normal, the slight difference is likely due to the bit of glazing.

Will need new pads next spring, but they're fine for the streets right now. Will consider the brake cooling duct if I'm going to be lapping with it often.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by mrceltic

Lost bite, about half the grab? Never came back, even the next day still had the same feel. Changed the fluid and brakes came back, almost to normal, the slight difference is likely due to the bit of glazing.

Will need new pads next spring, but they're fine for the streets right now. Will consider the brake cooling duct if I'm going to be lapping with it often.

Sorry, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the fluid. If the pads lost bite but the pedal didn't go soft then all you did was overheat the pads.

If you boil the fluid the pedal will go soft and in a worst case will go right to the floor with no stopping power.

Sounds like you overheated the pads and glazed them badly enough that they didn't have any real bite. Scuff them up and you should be fine.

That's exactly what happened to my stock pads, except they're VERY glazed over, almost like a mirror.