Stock tires in the cold!

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Switching to Ice and Snow (like Xi3/Hakka R/WS60) winter tires at +10C is stupid and compromises dry braking distance by A LOT.

in all honesty my Hankook ipikes grip better than the michelins (until they overheat) even in warm weather...

for gentle street driving there is absolutely no compromise in grip, you'd have to be on some bad tires to feel that.

how do i know?

exhibit a: having destroyed a michelin at the track a few weeks ago i've put my snows on instead of buying new tires. I take my bicycle to work anyway and keep my driving to rainy days so as to not overheat them. So for now it sorta works out.

but... i can't drive slow, ever, so i can tell you for a fact that my Hankook iPikes grip quite well, if not better than my Michelins.. Maybe on a 30 degree day with the car fully loaded and a panic brake... but i woudln't be that stupid.

but planned, aggressive stops don't tax the tires quite that much.

exhibit b:

being poor means doing stupid things, i've spent a few days at a racetrack burning off my old snow tires when i had my Impreza a few laps at a time.

Was pretty fun. Car is very predictable and was not in anyway dangerous.


Understand the limits of your vehicle and you will drive well in any condition.

having said that i personally think that the Michelin's are junk and if you actually have a choice, i would never recomend these tires, esp not for winter.

[dsgerbc]

I think OEM Michelins are fine in the dry, until severely sub-freezing temps. The compound is not that soft to begin with and doesn't turn to rock as temps fall a bit.

You iPikes must've been pretty much shot, to have had any decent grip in warm weather. Ice-specific micro-cuts in the tread kill dry traction, but if you wore those out - I could believe you.

Having good tires for street driving is all about an unexpected panic stop. Otherwise you'd be fine with anything.

I too have some history of burning 'winter' tires at the track. But I think those were older blizzaks, which pretty much turned into a crappy A/S tire after you scrub off the outer winter layer. It's fun, but I wouldn't recommend those on the street. Again, for subpar panic stop performance.

[Bg8780]

I wrecked my first BRZ last winter on the stock tires. I was driving from GA to Oh to go home for Christmas. 30 minutes from home a snow storm just started and I hit a bunch of slush in a valley. Tried to move to the center lane to avoid a couple vehicles that already spun out on and off the road. Spun out into a ditch and an Accord spun out and smashed into me when I was in the ditch. Ended up being a 20 car pile-up. 30 minutes from my parents house! So close!

TL;DR, buy winter or all season tires and don't try to out run a snow storm.

[sprintertrueno86]

Yep, you guys are right about these tires. Just finished having some fun in the twisties and the car felt like it was going to slide twice in 2 corners. It was 60 degrees today and car felt slippery at times...didn't have the same grip like when it was in the 70s-80s.

[StormTrooper]

Stock tires on this car are terrible on purpose....autoX was like driving in cold rain. And in the rain they are bad. No one should ever pay even half of what they sell for.


that said, it's a rwd light weight sports car, get winter tires for the winter. If your state doesn't get winter like texas or Florida then don't worry.

[reardrv]

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

Stock tires on this car are terrible on purpose....autoX was like driving in cold rain. And in the rain they are bad. No one should ever pay even half of what they sell for.


that said, it's a rwd light weight sports car, get winter tires for the winter. If your state doesn't get winter like texas or Florida then don't worry.

I would have to agree, these tires are terrible. It doesn't surprise me that 7thgear got better dry traction with his Ipikes. These are about the worst tires I've had on any performance car, wet or dry. I tried an autocross recently in cold wet weather on the stock tires and it was awful. The two FR-S's there seemed to have similar issues.

Also, as stated earlier, you really shouldn't trust any summer tire in cold weather. They get almost a plastic like consistency, and if its cold enough they will act like there on ice even if it's dry.

I used to have to drive both a SRT8 Challenger on summer tires and a SRT8 Charger on UHP All-season's in winter conditions for work. The Challenger could barely move, even on dry pavement. And forget about stopping. The Charger with the all-season's however was surprisingly manageable, no issues, no drama. They're essentially the same car too, summer rubber just does not like the cold.

[nos145]

ye. dont you dare doing it.
buy winter tires...

i did it, its suicidal

[StormTrooper]

Kuwait and canada do not have the same seasons

[headlikeahole]

OH NO! My car designed for low grip fun, slides around in the cold and wet. This must be fixed.

For those who have real winters, obviously get snow/ice tires. If you wont see temps below freezing then get whatever you want and be careful.

[KevinBRZ]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

I use to race in a rubber to ice car with blizzaks on it. I can tell you right now that there is a HUGE difference in how tire width affects how the car drove. I ran a 155/80r13 and a 175/70r13 even with the tiny difference between those sizes I noticed a big difference in traction. In the cold you couldn't touch a guy running the 155's if you were on the wider 175's. Even back to back testing on the same car shows in the cold the 155 was faster.

Oh yeah and my buddy runs in the studded class with an awd celica gts and he runs Dmack studded wrc rally spec tires. Size 205/65r15 that's not crazy skinny by any means.

You're talking about rally cars. A few fractions of an inch will not make much difference doing 40km/h in stop and go traffic in the city which is what most peoples normal winter driving consists of.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Actually the rubber to ice class rarely exceeds 105kph, normal highway speeds and they corner at 40-60 so it's a very relevant example. I speak from experience, if you don't want to take the advice that's fine it's a free country. Ps I never sited rally cars an example I just said the tire manufacturer was the same.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

I use to race in a rubber to ice car with blizzaks on it. I can tell you right now that there is a HUGE difference in how tire width affects how the car drove. I ran a 155/80r13 and a 175/70r13 even with the tiny difference between those sizes I noticed a big difference in traction. In the cold you couldn't touch a guy running the 155's if you were on the wider 175's. Even back to back testing on the same car shows in the cold the 155 was faster.

Oh yeah and my buddy runs in the studded class with an awd celica gts and he runs Dmack studded wrc rally spec tires. Size 205/65r15 that's not crazy skinny by any means.

No you didn't. You just thought you did.

Post your verified lap times back to back, same tires but different sizes. Then maybe I'll accept your "evidence". As for my anecdotal evidence, how's forty years of winter driving suit you?

In the real world where 90% of winter driving occurs on well maintained bare roads you will only notice the very poor performance of narrow winter tires. Which is what I said.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Believe what you want that's the beauty of a free country.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

No you didn't. You just thought you did.

Post your verified lap times back to back, same tires but different sizes. Then maybe I'll accept your "evidence". As for my anecdotal evidence, how's forty years of winter driving suit you?

In the real world where 90% of winter driving occurs on well maintained bare roads you will only notice the very poor performance of narrow winter tires. Which is what I said.

Do you have any quantitative evidence so show that the narrower tires actually give less grip? My "narrower" 205 snows are actually wider than the stock 215's as well, there's more to the width than just the advertised width.

CSG found that 225 RS3's were faster in time attack than 245 RS3's because the 245's weren't up to proper temp. There's a lot more to grip than just throwing a wider tire on a car.

Plus, would you rather have a fractional amount more grip in the dry at the expense of getting stuck or hitting someone when there is snow on the ground? Seems like a stupid gamble to take IMO.