Anyone else coming from high power FWD having trouble readjusting to RWD?

[BlaineWasHere]

I'm coming from 275WHP 325WTQ MKV GTI and I miss it a lot on the street but I have yet to miss it once at autoX.

[boxer 2.5]

FWD Integra Gs-R handled like a dream (Not super high Hp, mind you but pretty quick)
AWD Subaru Impreza handled like a tank, couldn't shake it
RWD Subaru BRZ handles like a dream, but has taken a lot to get comfortable with.

[bfrank1972]

I can understand the feeling, and I'll be the stick-in-the mud and say driving tail out on public roads isn't the best idea. Too much potential for bad things to happen to you, others, or at least your car. Too many cars, people, deer, potholes, gravel patches, raccoons, etc. to be hanging the tail out n the twisties. Not saying to drive like granny, I sure don't, but I can't really push this car like I could most "street" fwd cars I've driven. They just under steer which is much easier to reel in if things get hairy. For that matter, many "street" rwd cars do the same to some extent. I highly recommend autox to start - will give you a real feel for the limits of the car, and won't make you poor. Then graduate to de events, which will give you all the thrills you need and make you poor


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I can understand the feeling, and I'll be the stick-in-the mud and say driving tail out on public roads isn't the best idea. Too much potential for bad things to happen to you, others, or at least your car. Too many cars, people, deer, potholes, gravel patches, raccoons, etc. to be hanging the tail out n the twisties. Not saying to drive like granny, I sure don't, but I can't really push this car like I could most "street" fwd cars I've driven. They just under steer which is much easier to reel in if things get hairy. For that matter, many "street" rwd cars do the same to some extent.

This is exactly it. I consider it reckless to be slinging the tail around on public roads and without doing that, it is hard to take a 90 degree turn (most turns in my commute) with any kind of speed or fun factor. If I try to take them fast without sliding, it just feels weird, I can feel the front end resisting, whereas the Speed3 just pulled me through. Of course I had done some sorting on that car (Cobb springs and rear bar) so it was set up the way I wanted it.
I definitely need to attend some autocross and up my skill set for this platform if I'm going to keep enjoying it because I have realized already that if you aren't pushing the car, it makes no sense as a DD. There are much better commuter vehicles for $29,000.

[CBR600RR]

"quoted from Road and Track":

2012 Mazdaspeed 3

The Mazda’s engine is the largest at 2.3 liters, the most powerful with its 263-bhp coming at 5500 rpm, and it produces a stupendous 280 lb.-ft. of torque at 3000 rpm. This is, after all, the MZR engine that did duty in the CX-7—Mazda's recently departed midsize crossover that weighed in a gymnast shy of two tons. It was built to haul kids to school, but in the quarter-ton lighter Mazdaspeed3, it should simply haul. Should.
Despite all that power, the Mazda slugged to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds—a 10th behind the GTI, which has 63 fewer ponies and a half-second off what the Focus ST did despite it being down 11 bhp. The MS3 picked itself back up to pass the GTI before the end of the quarter mile completing that task in 14.7 sec. Yet, it was still a 10th behind the Ford.

Source: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...2-mazdaspeed-3

with only an e85 tune (~240 crank HP) and light weight wheels, I have my car FR-S doing 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and teh 1/4 mile in 14.3 seconds.

[rice_classic]

I get "infinity" miles per gallon on my ten speed bicycle and it's RWD so that must be proof that rwd is better than all... right?!

My lawn mower is fwd and it cuts lawn.. my FRS doesn't cut lawn.. maybe fwd is better?

Wait... When I have a shopping cart I push it, I don't pull it, so rwd must be best.

But when I have a wagon, I pull it, not push it, so is fwd best?

All of this is wrong, the Delta Wing goes practically as fast as LMP2 cars and it's shaped like a penis. Maybe penis shaped cars are best?

There's just so many comparisons to choose!!!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

What problem/symptom exactly are you having a hard time adjusting to?

I've been in and out of FWD for years and I have the opposite tendency which is to toss a FWD car aggressively into the turn because I always knew it wouldn't straighten/push as power was applied. I would think a FWD driver would be too aggressive initially in an attempt to rotate the car which in an FRS/BRZ would have you chasing the tail

^^this. Knowing this I purposely drove maybe 5-6/10ths my first few sessions in the BRZ, even still on signoffs again (stopped doing DEs for years while just racing) the comments were still "Too agressive on turn on and throttle control" - yep, exactly how I tend to make up for the race car's issues (FWD, limited in what we can do with the setup).

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

That would depend on the car.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I'm a little sensitive to folks that refer to FWD cars that are "forgiving". That is a reference to a FWD street car. Just as RWD street car is also forgiving.

A properly setup FWD race car, is one of the least forgiving, hateful and frightening things to drive at the limit. It has to be because if it's not, it's not fast.


With that being said...

A significant difference is how you control the rear when it steps out.

A FWD driver in a RWD car will tend to push on the throttle to save a slide (making it worse). A RWD driver in a FWD car will tend to lift off the throttle to save a slide (making it worse).

Also agreed! None of my FWD cars are what I would consider forgiving. A forgiving FWD car used for any sort of performance driving is, IMO, setup wrong.

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

This is exactly it. I consider it reckless to be slinging the tail around on public roads and without doing that, it is hard to take a 90 degree turn (most turns in my commute) with any kind of speed or fun factor.

It's also reckless to take 90 degree turns at high speeds on the street. How about you just leave TCS/VSC on? That would prevent the tail out activities within the laws of physics at least. Or just drive like a normal person on the street? I don't have any of these tail out issues you seem to unless I'm actually trying to do so. These cars on decent tires can take "corners" on the street at plenty high enough speeds where a small amount of oil, or road debris, etc can cause you some serious issues.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

It's also reckless to take 90 degree turns at high speeds on the street. How about you just leave TCS/VSC on? That would prevent the tail out activities within the laws of physics at least. Or just drive like a normal person on the street? I don't have any of these tail out issues you seem to unless I'm actually trying to do so. These cars on decent tires can take "corners" on the street at plenty high enough speeds where a small amount of oil, or road debris, etc can cause you some serious issues.

You misunderstood. I don't throw the tail around on the street. That was the point. FWD didn't require that kind of thing but the FR-S feels like it wants me to. I'm aggressive to a point, but I have no delusions of being a race driver.
I do not risk other people's necks when having my fun. My neck is my own concern.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

That would depend on the car. My previous car was fwd and exhibited creamy smooth lift off over steer which made line correction a doddle in the dry but in the wet I had to be very careful about lifting off the throttle (how ever slowly) going around bends other wise a spin was likely. While I think some one with more skill (and bigger balls) could have made it dance in the rain that some one wasn't me.

just because you've set your car up for easy rotation doesn't mean the platform is dangerous

it is very easy to dial out the danger factor from a FWD car.

[brn12345]

Coming for a road race honda here and absolutely love the way the BRZ drives. Very well balanced car even in stock form. Here is a link to the honda onboard, hope to be able to race the BRZ in that series if things work out.
[ame]http://youtu.be/rvSaYV9Qe2U[/ame]

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by brn12345

Coming for a road race honda here and absolutely love the way the BRZ drives. Very well balanced car even in stock form. Here is a link to the honda onboard, hope to be able to race the BRZ in that series if things work out.

Some pretty impressive driving there - looking forward to seeing you behing the wheel of your BRZ

[7thgear]

that silver EG honda so aggresive

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

You misunderstood. I don't throw the tail around on the street. That was the point. FWD didn't require that kind of thing but the FR-S feels like it wants me to. I'm aggressive to a point, but I have no delusions of being a race driver.
I do not risk other people's necks when having my fun. My neck is my own concern.

The point was, it's not THAT easy for the tail to come out on these cars. This forum reminds me of S2KI with all the tail out issues that I've never experienced, even when pushing the limits (but not exceeding them) on the street. :shrug:

If you are experiencing it, then you are exceeding the limits. You are driving beyond the limits of the vehicle either through physics (traction) or driving (rough).

My car is plenty of fun to drive on the street. :shrug:

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

just because you've set your car up for easy rotation doesn't mean the platform is dangerous

I wasn't suggesting it was dangerous, just caution (and respect) was required in the wet. I had spun it twice in the wet early on in my ownership. It was my first fwd car and had not yet come to grips (so to speak) with the platform.