CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[7thgear]

how are you guys understeering.... seriously. Whether i plow or not is the last thing on my mind when i attack corners.

[koevasi]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

how are you guys understeering.... seriously. Whether i plow or not is the last thing on my mind when i attack corners.

i would love to have the option of oversteer at the moment with my ad08s (well maybe not). I am thinking this is attributable to the wide 245 section tires? That is a lot of rubber to me..

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

how are you guys understeering.... seriously. Whether i plow or not is the last thing on my mind when i attack corners.

The car understeers in a static test.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

The car understeers in a static test.

I agree with this. On stock suspension, I get mild understeer at the limit in most corners.

It feels very close to being neutral though. Medium throttle will usually bring the rear end around nicely.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

The car understeers in a static test.

every car understeers in a static test

no manufacturer would put a car out that didn't :P

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I agree with this. On stock suspension, I get mild understeer at the limit in most corners.

that means you've reached the maximum grip of your current setup and you're still in one piece

that's awesome

now just lift a lil and go on your merry way.. you have fully maximized your car. If you can pull this off at every corner (without using the front to scrub off speed) then you'll easily be the fastest in your class.


i just hope people don't miss the trees for the forest. You really have to understand what exactly it is that you need to improve rather than just going out and making the car rotate more because that's what everyone else is doing.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

now just lift a lil and go on your merry way.. you have fully maximized your car. If you can pull this off at every corner (without using the front to scrub off speed) then you'll easily be the fastest in your class.

Apologies for an off-topic discussion, but this comment was interesting.

Is it always better to lift when you reach terminal understeer? On most corners, I heed that advice and will lift slightly to get the front end back in line.

But in one specific corner I'm thinking of (a slow 2nd gear hairpin leading to a long straight), I had been using the throttle to rotate the car just a bit to get it pointed in the right direction. I can usually anticipate a little rotation, countersteer, and hit the track-out point on the mark. It feels faster to get on the throttle as soon as possible entering the long straight, but I can't say for sure as it's just instinct and not really based on any theory.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Is it always better to lift when you reach terminal understeer? On most corners, I heed that advice and will lift slightly to get the front end back in line. .

Yes, it is indeed corner specific



but also how did you attain understeer. If it’s a high-speedsweeper and you’re already WOT then you only have one option.



If it’s a low speed corner and you’re understeering (which isusually a sign that you’ve over shot your entry by braking late or tooaggressively for your tire or using tires to scrub off entry speed, all ofwhich overheat your front tires and sowhen you get on the throttle your front tires are down for the count.



If your entry was SMOOTH (ie, you didn’t flick the car intothe corner or pulled the ebrake) and begin to understeer you need to quicklyanalyze whether going WOT will overpower your rear grip and rotate the car.Because remember that MORE throttle means more weight transfer to the back, soyou’re only going to understeer more… so those rears better break loose.



If you can’t overpower then you lift to rotate then back onthe throttle once the timing is right.

[7thgear]

also, if you can easily modulate rotation during the corner that means that you've

a) have the car setup for neutral already

b) didn't go fast enough. The fronts have so much grip that power modulation is enough to brake the rears.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

every car understeers in a static test

no manufacturer would put a car out that didn't :P

Eggsactly...


However i'm not sure advising people to lift is a good idea

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Eggsactly...


However i'm not sure advising people to lift is a good idea

i would rather be in a car where putting the throttle down settles the car when the rear comes around, not make it spin out even more....

have you ever been in a car where you're helpless to do anything, having to counter-steer and baby-egg the throttle and hoping that you stay on the pavement while that wall is approaching you at 180kph?

shit's fucked...

Why would you want to make this task even more difficult for yourself?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

If it’s a low speed corner and you’re understeering (which isusually a sign that you’ve over shot your entry by braking late or tooaggressively for your tire or using tires to scrub off entry speed, all ofwhich overheat your front tires and sowhen you get on the throttle your front tires are down for the count.

If your entry was SMOOTH (ie, you didn’t flick the car intothe corner or pulled the ebrake) and begin to understeer you need to quicklyanalyze whether going WOT will overpower your rear grip and rotate the car.Because remember that MORE throttle means more weight transfer to the back, soyou’re only going to understeer more… so those rears better break loose.

Yep I'm consistent/smooth on entry, and I can get the car to reliably oversteer in that corner with throttle. I might try lifting in that corner to see if I like that better, but my guess is I'll be down a few mph in the straight.

Also it's possible my entry speed into that corner is slightly fast, but I tend to push this car hard when at the track. It's a pretty forgiving/easy car to drive hard as long as your anticipate the throttle oversteer.

Thanks for the discussion! I'll try not to derail the thread further.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yep I'm consistent/smooth on entry, and I can get the car to reliably oversteer in that corner with throttle. I might try lifting in that corner to see if I like that better, but my guess is I'll be down a few mph in the straight.

Also it's possible my entry speed into that corner is slightly fast, but I tend to push this car hard when at the track. It's a pretty forgiving/easy car to drive hard as long as your anticipate the throttle oversteer.

Thanks for the discussion! I'll try not to derail the thread further.

whatever you do, your goal is to straight out as quickly as possible and to go WOT without wheel spin.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I think both @Calum and I were looking for some numbers. A range of spring rates to work within for some different tires. Since nobody seems to want to do this we have to make our own "guestimations."

Having seen some test results done on some of the RS-3/AD08/Rival/RE11 level tires they are capable of holding around 1.1g on the skidpad, more or less. The V12/PS2/ContiSC2 level tires provide plus minus .95g of sticky. So .95/1.1 is about 85%. 85% of CSG's 10k/12K rates on their SRC's running 1.1g tires come out to be 8.5K/10.2K with V12/PS2 level tires.

And, magazine published numbers for the OEM Primacys are 0.93... hmmm... :p