Element tuning Hydra EMS

[mike the snake]

The more I hear about Hydra, the cooler it sounds.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Very cool stuff Phil. Can you talk more aobut the individual cylinder knock detection will work? I don't actually even know where the OEM Subaru knock sensor is located or how it detects knock. How will you detect which individual cylinder is knocking? Is there a knock sensor for each cylinder?

No the oem car does not have 4 knock sensors but the Hydra knows exactly which and when each cylinder fires and we also know when knock is detected. So if you just fired cylinder 2 and knock voltage spikes you know that was the cause. It's really not that simple but that should paint the picture.

The software will also bold in red on your timing map where knock occurred. This takes some of the analysis normally required to evaluate your data log to determine where inbyour map changes need to be made.

Also because we will know exactly which cylinder is knocking, should it be a consistent problem with that one cylinder, you can use the Hydra's individual cylinder timing or fuel trim to make it less knock prone. This is often a problem we see with hand ported cylinder heads, even oem manifolds can have more flow to one cylinder (Sti has this problem with runner #4), or poor coolant flow to a cylinder. My Sti race car had this problemwith the oem manifold and upon engine teardown #4 was clearly leaner than the rest. Until i was able to find a better manifold I was able to specifically increase fueling to cylinder 4 to get even fueling. As more and more people blow up the FRS/BRZ we may find one particular cylinder is prone to knock first (oems aren't stupid and it's typically the cylinder with the knock sensor).

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

No the oem car does not have 4 knock sensors but the Hydra knows exactly which and when each cylinder fires and we also know when knock is detected. So if you just fired cylinder 2 and knock voltage spikes you know that was the cause. It's really not that simple but that should paint the picture.

The software will also bold in red on your timing map where knock occurred. This takes some of the analysis normally required to evaluate your data log to determine where inbyour map changes need to be made.

Also because we will know exactly which cylinder is knocking, should it be a consistent problem with that one cylinder, you can use the Hydra's individual cylinder timing or fuel trim to make it less knock prone. This is often a problem we see with hand ported cylinder heads, even oem manifolds can have more flow to one cylinder (Sti has this problem with runner #4), or poor coolant flow to a cylinder. My Sti race car had this problemwith the oem manifold and upon engine teardown #4 was clearly leaner than the rest. Until i was able to find a better manifold I was able to specifically increase fueling to cylinder 4 to get even fueling. As more and more people blow up the FRS/BRZ we may find one particular cylinder is prone to knock first (oems aren't stupid and it's typically the cylinder with the knock sensor).

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

im no tuning expert but i can remember how much pain we had with our built STI and #4 and having such features i know would've helped a lot

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

im no tuning expert but i can remember how much pain we had with our built STI and #4 and having such features i know would've helped a lot

Yes #4 is dramatically different on the STi. We knew pretty early on it was a problem when a customer had tested the intake manifold on a flow bench but it wasn't until engine tear down how bad it was. Easy fix with the Hydra EMS.

For some the features are invaluable in a skilled tuner's hands. I had a client who flew me to California to tune his race engine. The problem was that the hand ported heads had dramatically different air flow between the runners...one was over +20% but they were all off based on the flowbench data. I had him install 4 egt probes, one in each header pipe, and I was able to log the data. With this I was able to individually trim each cylinder's fueling using the Hydra until I had balanced each cylinder's egts.

There is no way that engine wouldn't have burned up at least one piston without this level of tuning ability.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

No the oem car does not have 4 knock sensors but the Hydra knows exactly which and when each cylinder fires and we also know when knock is detected. So if you just fired cylinder 2 and knock voltage spikes you know that was the cause. It's really not that simple but that should paint the picture.

The software will also bold in red on your timing map where knock occurred. This takes some of the analysis normally required to evaluate your data log to determine where inbyour map changes need to be made.

Also because we will know exactly which cylinder is knocking, should it be a consistent problem with that one cylinder, you can use the Hydra's individual cylinder timing or fuel trim to make it less knock prone. This is often a problem we see with hand ported cylinder heads, even oem manifolds can have more flow to one cylinder (Sti has this problem with runner #4), or poor coolant flow to a cylinder. My Sti race car had this problemwith the oem manifold and upon engine teardown #4 was clearly leaner than the rest. Until i was able to find a better manifold I was able to specifically increase fueling to cylinder 4 to get even fueling. As more and more people blow up the FRS/BRZ we may find one particular cylinder is prone to knock first (oems aren't stupid and it's typically the cylinder with the knock sensor).

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

I hadn't thought about being able to know which cylinder fired as the knock event was recorded. I look forward to learning more about how well each individual cylinder works.

[Frostyman]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I came across this while researching. This looks very interesting.

Anyone running this system? Advantages/disadvantages?

http://elementtuning.com/

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ighlight=hydra

[RickyB]

The Hydra knock detection system works by sampling the knock sensor signal 25 thousand times a second (just for reference, at 3000 RPM each cylinder only fires 25 times). The Hydra listens for knock on a particular cylinder starting at the point that the spark plug fires until the point that the piston moves twenty degrees past top dead center. Any signal in that particular window of time above the programmed threshold is logged as a knock event on that cylinder. Any knock signal values detected outside the window of any cylinder is assigned to the background knock signal. This allows a tuner to quickly determine how noisy the engine is and to help them establish an appropriate knock threshold and knock threshold strategy to detect real knock.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I hadn't thought about being able to know which cylinder fired as the knock event was recorded. I look forward to learning more about how well each individual cylinder works.

Yeah I can't wait to note a trend with this FA motor.

[mike the snake]

Do you have a Hydra system and a Hydramist system in stock ready to go?

My turbo kit should be arriving any day now, and it's time for me to decide on tuning solutions.

I've waited months longer than I was told for other parts, and I don't want to wait any longer, so to an extent, the remaining parts I need will be selected from what is available now.

[jamesm]

the more i read about this thing the more i like it. when it comes time for e85 i think i might make the jump.

[mike the snake]

Friday I told my tuner/shop to go ahead and order up the Hydra EMS and the Hydramist system.

I figured what the hell, I might as well go for the nicer option.

As time goes on, I'm considering paying the car off and turning it into a track car with gutted interior, full roll cage, big brakes, the works. Eventually maybe even a built motor.

For now though, I'll be going for the numbers I can get with the FB gtx28 turbo kit and WMI with the Hydra.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Friday I told my tuner/shop to go ahead and order up the Hydra EMS and the Hydramist system.

I figured what the hell, I might as well go for the nicer option.

As time goes on, I'm considering paying the car off and turning it into a track car with gutted interior, full roll cage, big brakes, the works. Eventually maybe even a built motor.

For now though, I'll be going for the numbers I can get with the FB gtx28 turbo kit and WMI with the Hydra.

that's going to be a killer setup! some of the features in their software are insane, i'm jealous.

[mike the snake]

I also like that the stock ECU will be removed and left untouched, so when I go back to stock it won't show that it's been flashed or changed at all.

[el-92]

So how much does the stand-alone cost ? Really interested just sold my open flash tablet because I got tired of the lag of flashing waiting to see how the tune is gonna act.