FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[Sully]

Question for all you really weight worrying people: Is your prospective FR-S/BRZ/GT86 going to be your daily drive? Do you need it to be?

If no? Why not just go all out and get yourself a Lotus 7 kit? Or used Elise/Exige? RX-7? Miata?

[SUB-FT86]

But anyway you slice it the GC is not the FRS competition. I would say the best thread out of these VS threads would be the one with a NC Miata or BRZ. Everything else is either outdated or in a different size class.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Sully

Question for all you really weight worrying people: Is your prospective FR-S/BRZ/GT86 going to be your daily drive? Do you need it to be?

If no? Why not just go all out and get yourself a Lotus 7 kit? Or used Elise/Exige? RX-7? Miata?

the whole point behind this car is that you do your daily shit in it and then rip it on the track

this car is not (primarily) for blokes who can bust down stacks to pay for a Lotus.

Subaru/Toyota have finally built a car that i was waiting for.

a. Affordable b. sporty c. seats 4 (seats are small, but so is my wife is upcoming child)

i have only 1 parking spot and i'm too old to do the whole working on old cars thing. I want a nice looking car that's not an embarrassment on the track and that doesn't put me back into debt.

This car will deliver, even if it's HALF the hype its been getting.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

But anyway you slice it the GC is not the FRS competition. I would say the best thread out of these VS threads would be the one with a NC Miata or BRZ. Everything else is either outdated or in a different size class.

The problem is you're grouping it based solely on paper performance specs (and the 2013 GC isn't out yet so none of us can for sure how the car will drive, all we have is the previous generation GC which isn't a solid point of comparison). What most people are saying is they're going to be cross shopped based ENTIRELY on pricing; which the argument then becomes "Which is the better bang for your buck." Truthfully it's looking like the GC may take the cake as far as bang for your buck goes; for likely 24.5k-25.5k you're looking at brembo's, pretty good interior, 274bhp 275ft-lbs, better stock sound system and gearing that supports forced induction (a huge factor a lot of people are seemingly overlooking). If you're like me and you aren't sitting on stacks of cash that you're waiting to use on buying a 2013 dedicated track vehicle then you plan on DD this thing also.

Not everyone is going to want to stick with the stock horsepower or just a little over, many people are going to want to put some serious work into the car which will include forced induction. The way it's looking right now is with the FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 there'll be two major problems in addition to gearing: Engine compartment space and the extremely high compression ratio.


Edit: Also I'll ask a solid question. When all is said and done and let's say for example we've got two heavily modded cars. A heavily modded GC and a heavily modded FRS. Is the 400-450lb difference in weight actually going to make a big enough difference in handling to put one of them far out of the others league? Probably not unless you're a seriously skilled professional driver. But will the difference in horsepower put one out of the others league? On everything outside of a short track/AutoX, I'm going to subjectively say yes.

[glorydays]

the GenCoupe is the best competition for the FRS. The BRZ is the same car and the NC MX5 is only for 2, eliminating anyone with friends and or a small family. The things that the Gen and FRS have in common:
2+2 seating
RWD
4cyl (at least the 2.0T)
MPG around 30
Non-American
Coupe styling
Price

The last factor is for most people the most important figure and i imagine will determine many people's final decision.

As far as performance is concerned, you gotta pick your poison. Either lightweight, low space, and low power or the 2.0t which weighs 500lbs more but more space and 70hp more. handling will be relative to your skills or tastes.

The only other car i can think of thats closest to an FRS/BRZ is the RX8 but most people here have rotorphobia so its a hard sell.

[glorydays]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The new engine utilizes some new things plus D/I and a twin scroll turbo over the single scroll. I think there will be a good amount left on the table but not more than 60 whp I guess.

3.8 has DI, 2.0t is twin scroll non direct injection. ive been hearing that port injection is better for tuning i guess because of the ability to swap out injectors easily, but im no expert on this so dont quote me.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

The problem is you're grouping it based solely on paper performance specs (and the 2013 GC isn't out yet so none of us can for sure how the car will drive, all we have is the previous generation GC which isn't a solid point of comparison). What most people are saying is they're going to be cross shopped based ENTIRELY on pricing; which the argument then becomes "Which is the better bang for your buck." Truthfully it's looking like the GC may take the cake as far as bang for your buck goes; for likely 24.5k-25.5k you're looking at brembo's, pretty good interior, 274bhp 275ft-lbs, better stock sound system and gearing that supports forced induction (a huge factor a lot of people are seemingly overlooking). If you're like me and you aren't sitting on stacks of cash that you're waiting to use on buying a 2013 dedicated track vehicle then you plan on DD this thing also.

Not everyone is going to want to stick with the stock horsepower or just a little over, many people are going to want to put some serious work into the car which will include forced induction. The way it's looking right now is with the FR-S/BRZ/GT-86 there'll be two major problems in addition to gearing: Engine compartment space and the extremely high compression ratio.


Edit: Also I'll ask a solid question. When all is said and done and let's say for example we've got two heavily modded cars. A heavily modded GC and a heavily modded FRS. Is the 400-450lb difference in weight actually going to make a big enough difference in handling to put one of them far out of the others league? Probably not unless you're a seriously skilled professional driver. But will the difference in horsepower put one out of the others league? On everything outside of a short track/AutoX, I'm going to subjectively say yes.

I totally agree with you. But from what I have gathered in this thread is people are more concerned about lightweight feel. I understand the GC looking like the better bang for buck and I also believe it will be but these other guys on here don't care about that.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by glorydays

the GenCoupe is the best competition for the FRS. The BRZ is the same car and the NC MX5 is only for 2, eliminating anyone with friends and or a small family. The things that the Gen and FRS have in common:
2+2 seating
RWD
4cyl (at least the 2.0T)
MPG around 30
Non-American
Coupe styling
Price

The last factor is for most people the most important figure and i imagine will determine many people's final decision.

As far as performance is concerned, you gotta pick your poison. Either lightweight, low space, and low power or the 2.0t which weighs 500lbs more but more space and 70hp more. handling will be relative to your skills or tastes.

The only other car i can think of thats closest to an FRS/BRZ is the RX8 but most people here have rotorphobia so its a hard sell.

Rotating triangles give me nightmares

3.8 has DI, 2.0t is twin scroll non direct injection. ive been hearing that port injection is better for tuning i guess because of the ability to swap out injectors easily, but im no expert on this so dont quote me.

It's more because port injection carries a lower compression ratio. High Compression + Forced induction = Detonation

[7thgear]

here is an example..

in our local time attack series, we have these two very good drivers that post nearly identical lap times on all of our tracks.

one is a lightly modded 2004 mustang on RPF11's and RS3's (mods include welded subframe bracing and race alignment, and a removal of the rear and passanger seat for racing)

the other is a stripped 1989 CRX Si with a roll bar, coilovers and on Nitto NT05.. but OEM engine.

they are in the same class (as far as our classification goes, but i won't get into the details of it)

so take from that what you will.

CRX: 105 crank hp, probably around 1950lb with the rollbar (interiors back then weight nothing anyway)
Mustang: 260 crank, and probably around 3150lb (with the missing interior, no spare, and much lighter wheels)

so now imagine the same CRX had 260 crank, or not even, lets give it 200 crank by simply dropping in a STOCK K20.

one other thing to keep in mind, is that this mustang has won this year's championship, he is our best driver.

so i think the battle between a stock GC and a stock FT86 is going to be good. On paper the GC should win but i have faith in the FT86



but the thing to take away from all this, weight does matter.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

here is an example..

in our local time attack series, we have these two very good drivers that post nearly identical lap times on all of our tracks.

one is a lightly modded 2004 mustang on RPF11's and RS3's (mods include welded subframe bracing and race alignment)

the other is a stripped 1989 CRX Si with a roll bar, coilovers and on Nitto NT05.. but OEM engine.

they are in the same class (as far as our classification goes, but i won't get into the details of it)

so take from that what you will.

Bingo

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

But anyway you slice it the GC is not the FRS competition. I would say the best thread out of these VS threads would be the one with a NC Miata or BRZ. Everything else is either outdated or in a different size class.

In my world it's FR-S , GC, 1M coupe, G37 coupe maybe, 997 911. If it's a 2 seater or non-RWD, it's gone. Gotta be able to carry the kids if the other vehicle is out of commission. You say, get out! those are all priced differently - that's not the point. If the FR-S fits, drives awesome and makes me happy, it's in. If it's too small for the kid seats, or it feels too slow, or feels too low rent, then we try the GC - repeat, if that's not going to work, move up the chain.

Everyone has different criteria.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I totally agree with you. But from what I have gathered in this thread is people are more concerned about lightweight feel. I understand the GC looking like the better bang for buck and I also believe it will be but these other guys on here don't care about that.

Well you're missing brand image, which is actually pretty important IMO. Scion and Hyundai, well not really. But I think people would rather drive a Subaru than a Hyundai, especially because Japanese cars have such a long proven history of reliability and quality.

[SUB-FT86]

You know I find it funny about these 2 cars. These 2 cars are the only cars I care for in the sporty car world for the money. I have a problem with every other sporty car that prevents me from buying them because they don't follow what I want in a sporty car to a T.

RWD
2+2
Low slung good looking GT shape(I can't do Muscle car boxyness or hatchback funny egg shape)
Sports seats with a low to the ground feeling and a nice size steering wheel
Feel through steering and what the tires are doing
Sport suspension that favors handling over comfort
Great engine
Great brakes
Good auto(Sport) transmission
Good handling
Features
Affordable

And the FRS and GC is the only cars to offer all that I want.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well you're missing brand image, which is actually pretty important IMO. Scion and Hyundai, well not really. But I think people would rather drive a Subaru than a Hyundai, especially because Japanese cars have such a long proven history of reliability and quality.

I knew that. That's why I called a few guys out about it.

Also to everyone on here I didn't mean that the two cars were totally different. They just have different goals when it come to Sport.