smaller, lighter Nissan Zcar?

[Noble713]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I buy cars to drive, not play with gadgets or have computers tell me where to turn.

A car is itself just a big expensive gadget.

To me, fancy electronics and "features" are just distractions that tell me money was spent on market research and software instead of developing the motor, chassis, or suspension.

Is a boost gauge a fancy distraction? How about a tachometer? If you care about chassis development then you care about performance. A clean OEM digital gauge/touchscreen and ECU tuning setup could save weight, reduce complexity, and lower total cost of ownership (all by precluding the need to purchase aftermarket physical gauges, interior trim pieces, engine management, boost controllers, etc.). But you would reject these tangible and, honestly, rather inexpensive (especially for an OEM's R&D dept) improvements because they are "fancy electronics"?

I'll agree that Nissan has pretty good reputation for sports cars. Not sure how they went from producing the 240SX and the S15 Silvia to 350/370Z, but we'll let that slide.

no other Japanese company puts out true sports sedans.

Lexus IS-F?

I'm sure all three of the cars I own are considered Japanese sport sedans. Even if we discount the Evo X for having AWD (in which case none of the GT-R's would be "sports cars" either), the two Toyotas are both front engine, RWD, turbo I6's.....same formula as the BMW 3-series, which is generally considered the epitome of the "sport sedan".

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Noble713

A car is itself just a big expensive gadget.

Fair, but I consider an engine a much different gadget than a tablet, I'm sure you do as well. I like them for very different reasons as I'm sure you will agree.

Originally Posted by Noble713

Is a boost gauge a fancy distraction? How about a tachometer? If you care about chassis development then you care about performance. A clean OEM digital gauge/touchscreen and ECU tuning setup could save weight, reduce complexity, and lower total cost of ownership (all by precluding the need to purchase aftermarket physical gauges, interior trim pieces, engine management, boost controllers, etc.). But you would reject these tangible and, honestly, rather inexpensive (especially for an OEM's R&D dept) improvements because they are "fancy electronics"?

Agree that digital dashboards are cool and likely the future. Disagree about the distractions. My other car (also a manual, and coincidentally a Nissan) doesn't have a tach, all it has is a speedo, odometer (no trip either) fuel gauge (doesn't really work, rely on the odometer), temp gauge and a couple lights. I really don't want much on my dashboard, I want to know how fast I'm going and when to pull over if somethings wrong, that's about it. Dashboards aside I was commenting on a superflous tablet in the center console (a la Tesla Model S) that does nothing to aide my driving experience. More isn't always better even if you argue that it has no impact on what I pay, which it does, maybe a couple hundred is just a drop in the bucket to you but it means something to me. Like I said in the above post, I don't care if my oil is at 180 degrees or 200, if I peak at 6 psi or 8 psi boost around the bend, I just want to have fun. Admittedly that means different things to different people but we're all just here to voice opinions.

Originally Posted by Noble713

I'll agree that Nissan has pretty good reputation for sports cars. Not sure how they went from producing the 240SX and the S15 Silvia to 350/370Z, but we'll let that slide.

That comment wasn't for you, and yes I did miss some pretty big sports cars (although I want to argue about a Lexus being "sporty" but I'll let that slide, I never had an interest in them so I really don't know), the point stands that Nissan once had a good reputation for vehicles that handle well. I'll edit the comment.

[m.wood0213]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I buy cars to drive, not play with gadgets or have computers tell me where to turn. I bought an FRS solely because of the simple head unit, I would have bought a BRZ if it came with something similar, the price difference was irrelevant in my mind. To me, fancy electronics and "features" are just distractions that tell me money was spent on market research and software instead of developing the motor, chassis, or suspension. To each their own, but Nissan's partner has a new Clio out that I personally find disturbing, I wouldn't be surprised if the tech gets used in a new "z" car.

Can't find a link but see Top Gear Season 20 Episode 1. It's got an option to simulate engine noises from Renault Alpines to the new GTR.




What? They've been stagnant the last decade (so have Honda and Toyota) but Nissan have put out some of the best handling cars for the price.
B13 Sentra ('91-'94) (came standard with a LSD)
240SX (Do I need to explain?)
Datsun 240Z-280Z (Same suspension setup as Ferrari's of the time, fraction of the price, nothing else compared at the time)
Datsun 510 (Full independent rear suspension, known as the poor man's BMW 2002 and very competitive, still used to this day for autocross and track duty)
Not to forget the Skylines and GTRs

That's a list of cars some would consider legendary.

Edit: Removed the calling out of other manufacturers, I don't know enough to back that up.

Maybe I should correct myself. I've never look at nissan in the past decade to be a car about handling. GTR is disqualified because of $100,000. Also I wouldnt put "handling" a prime image for a skyline. Engine yes, awd yes. Chassis no. Just my outlook. Porsche has the title for "handling" and always will.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by m.wood0213

Maybe I should correct myself. I've never look at nissan in the past decade to be a car about handling. GTR is disqualified because of $100,000. Also I wouldnt put "handling" a prime image for a skyline. Engine yes, awd yes. Chassis no. Just my outlook. Porsche has the title for "handling" and always will.

Entirely agree.

:happy0180:

[Diode Dynamics]

I really need to drive a Porsche one of these days....lol

Nick C.

[Zaku]

Hoping to see a big revival with this car and the twins, hopefully another integra or an s2000.

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

B13 Sentra ('91-'94) (came standard with a LSD)

I'm sure my best friend would be happy to see this on your list. He loves his little '94 Sentra and though it's kind of a little clown car, I will say it is pretty quick for what it is, and it doesn't corner too poorly. The thing I've never understood is how they decided to build a manual car with no RPM tach.

Either way, I'm curious about this new, light Z. Mostly for my friend's sake though, because he's also got a fixer-upper 300ZX sitting in his driveway. He's a pretty big Nissan fanboi, so I want to keep an eye on this.

[SkullWorks]

Porsche's are actually known by people who drive them to be monsters until the last couple of years. They would prefer to drive out of corners backwards. did they have high limits of adhesion? yes, were they intuitive to drive...not until recently, for most of their history they were brutes and took nut jobs to drive them properly...nissan has always had much more approachable and appreciable handling characteristics.

I know that will rub some of the people on here who like to throw their P-car big money habits around...but ask any real Porsche driver (not commuter) there is a reason Porsche tried killing off the 911 multiple times, but the fan base wouldn't let them.

[JDMluv]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

As an owner of an original Z (I've owned 240Z's since 1983) I say too little too late Nissan. Those of us who have carried the torch for the 240Z have been clamoring for a car closer to the 240 then the bloated crap Nissan has been turning out for 30 years.

The first time I saw the -86 car concepts I thought to myself "someone finally decided to make a modern 240Z". Quite frankly, Toyota and Subaru have done what Nissan isn't capable of doing. Nissan thinks the friggin' Juke is a desirable car. They have completely lost their way.

SLOW Down George Kostanza!! i own a 350z and believe me its not a crap. i know the 350z - 370z are heavy cars compared with the 86, but nissan wanted to do a fast car but still lighter than V8 American muscles.. so they came up with the 350z which is not slow like a miata and not fast like a camaro.. but it still well balanced car and it weight not bad for 300hp V6 (revup model) .. u can drift like hell and shred tires like hell.. and its still good for an autox and track!!

plus nissan came up with the s15 with a turbo sr20det 250hp which weights less than the 350z.

so please give nissan a break.

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by JDMlove

i own a 350z and believe me its not a crap. /cut/

so please give nissan a break.

You missed the point of my post COMPLETELY. Do you honestly think that the Z34 platform shares any qualities of the S30 platform? Do you even know the design criteria that Yoshihiko Matsuo set for the S30?

The S30 platform embodies the "everyman's" sports car. It was designed to be a world car (which it was), be affordable with attainable performance. Trust me, drifting was not a design goal. Winning weekend SCCA type events and driving to work certainly were among its attributes.

Sorry if I bruised your ego.

[JDMluv]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

You missed the point of my post COMPLETELY. Do you honestly think that the Z34 platform shares any qualities of the S30 platform? Do you even know the design criteria that Yoshihiko Matsuo set for the S30?

The S30 platform embodies the "everyman's" sports car. It was designed to be a world car (which it was), be affordable with attainable performance. Trust me, drifting was not a design goal. Winning weekend SCCA type events and driving to work certainly were among its attributes.

Sorry if I bruised your ego.

They built the z33 with different mentality than the S30, but that doesnt mean that the s30 chassis/car is better than the FM Platform chassis.

Plus the the z33 was not built to drift.. its a great car for AutoX, Track etc.. plus u can drift the hell out of it. and if its good for drift that means that the chassis is well balanced.

i know the s30 is a great car and had a good quality chassis even in now days. but its not better than the z33 chassis/quality.

you cant just judge a car by its weight.. and if its over your weight expectation you say its a crap!!

no worries bro you cant bruise my ego.

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by JDMlove

They built the z33 with different mentality than the S30, but that doesnt mean that the s30 chassis/car is better than the FM Platform chassis.

/cut/

i know the s30 is a great car and had a good quality chassis even in now days. but its not better than the z33 chassis/quality.

/cut/

you cant just judge a car by its weight.. and if its over your weight expectation you say its a crap!!

It's not just weight. Not only that, but I'm the first to say that the S30 platform is no where near as good as a modern platform that is ridged and light weight.

In the late 1960's through the mid 1970's the S30 platform had a rare combination of ride/handling/value/reliability that not many (any) cars had. Nissan used all of the right components in all of the right ways. You can't take a chassis from the late 60's and reintroduce it today and declare it a good car. By modern standards it would be horrible...and never meet crash regulations.

But what the 240Z was to the marketplace can be recreated. And it was...by Subaru and Toyota. Nissan has been unwilling to make an affordable, light-weight, rear drive sports car since 1978. The introduction of the 280ZX was the introduction of a bloated and cumbersome GT that traded on the goodwill of its predecessor.

Keep in mind, in the mid to late sixties when the S30 design effort began its targets were MG, Triumph, Morgan, Healey, Alpha & Fiat. All light-weight sports cars. At the time muscle cars (American GT's) like the Mustang, Camaro, Firebird & GTO were just coming on the market and were generally not cross shopped with "proper" sports cars. The introduction of the 240Z was the death to its direct competitors and spawned new competitors such as the RX-7 and Toyota's original Celica.

Fast forward 40+ years and look where the 370Z competes. The car is cross shopped with the Mustang, Camaro & Challenger. The 370Z is not cross shopped with the few light weight sports cars of the modern age, mainly the -86 and the Miata.

And that was the point of my post. Nissan quickly moved the 240Z away from the market it created and became an also-ran in a market of bloated GT cars. All of the Z cars since 1979 have been "Halo Cars" for Nissan. Nissan's attempts to re-enter the affordable sports car market (240SX) were half efforts and ultimately unsuccessful in the market. If history is any indication, I don't think we will see a *competitive* light-weight sports car from Nissan. Oh they will introduce one...but it will miss the mark.

[JDMluv]

thanx for the writing, i agree with you.. nissan should've keep the gt-r to compete with the GT cars / muscle cars and keep the Z light/fun ... but they ruined it when they released the 300zx IMO, and the biggest fail when they released the 300zx twin turbo..

BUT they came back in the right direction when they released the 350z DE engine.. the engine was light and the chassis was well balanced.. power enough. the HR Z which i own, i admit its heavy even when you drive you feel its heavy even though it got 306 HP but in turns its heavy.. but yet better than mustangs/Camaros...etc

370z is good car for someone want a sport car for daily drive.. for someone only Join Auto X once twice a year.. cause the car is really heavy. pple buy the 370z over the V6 Mustang and V6 Camaro cause it got the quality, it got the balance.

The s30 is an iconic car, its category were forgotten not only by nissan but many manufacturers. i guess till Hyundai came up with the 2.0 Turbo Geneses Coupe.. then Toyota said wat if we came with sport car that cost same the hyundai!! but better, lighter with more quality.. sure all consumers will run to us

believe me nissan will hit the 86 Market and steel it from Toyota. The only thing missing in the 86 is Power.. if nissan will bring the S15 SR20DET Dayz back.. the new z will be a success

allot of 86 Enthusiasts wished it had a turbo!! well.. nissan will do it.. a lightweight car with a turbo!!!