FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by vq37

The GC is a GT type car, made to compete with the likes of G37 and BMW 3 series. The FR-Z/BR-Z is more of a pure sports car with obviously little attention given to interior comforts. It's all about the driving experience.

This is exactly why I didn't buy a Gencoupe after test driving one. Hyundai positioned the GC as a sports car, but I think it would be a better product if they built it as a GT instead. It feels to me like Hyundai tried hard to hit numbers targets and largely succeeded, but because of inexperience, they didn't quite put everything together in areas of driving feel. And that is much more important in a sports car than in a GT.

As it is, the GC is kind of harsh and noisy for use as a touring car, but it's heavy and slow for its power as a sports car. I remember not liking the clutch take up (though I can't remember why exactly any more), and the shifter was nothing special. The rev hang was really long, and although I didn't experience it on the test drive, I remember reading that the car cut power very aggressively if you hit redline.

In general I'd rather get a slower car that cares about driving feel like an MX-5 or RX-8 because it's mostly easier to add power than to fix feel.

Mind you, the 2013 GC may fix a lot of the issues I had with the added development...

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by val_lixembeau

This is exactly why I didn't buy a Gencoupe after test driving one. Hyundai positioned the GC as a sports car, but I think it would be a better product if they built it as a GT instead. It feels to me like Hyundai tried hard to hit numbers targets and largely succeeded, but because of inexperience, they didn't quite put everything together in areas of driving feel. And that is much more important in a sports car than in a GT.

As it is, the GC is kind of harsh and noisy for use as a touring car, but it's heavy and slow for its power as a sports car. I remember not liking the clutch take up (though I can't remember why exactly any more), and the shifter was nothing special. The rev hang was really long, and although I didn't experience it on the test drive, I remember reading that the car cut power very aggressively if you hit redline.

In general I'd rather get a slower car that cares about driving feel like an MX-5 or RX-8 because it's mostly easier to add power than to fix feel.

Mind you, the 2013 GC may fix a lot of the issues I had with the added development...

Many of you guys have made some good points about the GC, but man on paper that's a lot of car for the money. I know you can't quantify driving feel/quality on paper, but you can't shake a a Big Mac at that! And looks??? Well that's all subjective ain't it? I mean every time I see a Mitsu Eclipse on the road I think people must be suffering from blindness. LOL So, for what it is, it's a winner. And if they've ironed out all the rough edges, then they might just have a winner.

Say what you will about weight, but it's all about power to weight ratios and the GC got it better than many cars out there. Certainly better than the FRS/BRZ??? (dunno someone do the math for me) Who cares what it weighs when it just performs? Look at the GT-R, Bently Continental, etc., etc.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Everyone has his own opinions. For me, features don't necessarily have much to do with it. A larger, heavier car is inherently going to be more comfortable and less immediate than a smaller, lighter-weight car.

Ferinstance, if you took an Aston Martin DB9 and stripped it of everything (no a/c, no stereo, windup windows, etc), that doesn't really make it more of a "sports car" to me. It's a decontented Grand Tourer. Contrariwise, a Lotus Elise featured up with seat warmers/coolers, dvd infotainment system, passenger foot massager, etc., would still be a "sports car".

To me.

Not that I get too hung up on the terminology! Call 'em what you will, they is what they is...

But all of that would add weight and one would also argue that it isn't optimal for track with the added weight tacked on to the elise. One thing you're forgetting on that feature list is the suspension being a bit softer also if they was to make a GT model Elise.

Let's take the 911 for comparison. The GT3 is voided of any features that is luxury oriented and everything on the car is sharpened for track duty and the backseats is ditched and the car loses 150 lbs. The GT3 is much better than the 911 at being a sports car. A car doesn't have to be superlight to become a much better performance machine as car manufacturers would prove you wrong. I read a story where Autoblog was more crazy about the Nismo 370Z than the regular 370Z. They described the difference as GT to Sports car.

[miata]

GC = gonorrhea cocci. As in GC culture from genital source or eye.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

Say what you will about weight, but it's all about power to weight ratios and the GC got it better than many cars out there. Certainly better than the FRS/BRZ??? (dunno someone do the math for me) Who cares what it weighs when it just performs? Look at the GT-R, Bently Continental, etc., etc.

The outgoing 210hp 2.0T is pretty dismal in the power to weight department stock. It's about 15.8lb/hp, around the same as my Corolla XRS which is in the lower end of the sport compact spectrum for shenanigans. In my opinion it achieves the just barely acceptable mark with 0-60 launches between 6.8-7.2 seconds (model dependant). Others were under the impression that the stock 2.0T did low 6's which I thought was funny.

*Insert my quip on the +3300 curb weight.

*Insert the increase to 300-400hp with turbo and tune for couple grand yada-yada-yada 5 page debate.

See I've done this before on this very same forum a half year ago.

I was genuinely interested in this car when it was first announced. The new 2.0T model is what I would have liked to have seen with 274hp stock tune which will have better power to weight then the FR-S. With everything going so well Hyundai had to start this new styling theme and it's not my thing...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

Who cares what it weighs when it just performs? Look at the GT-R, Bently Continental, etc., etc.

I care what it weighs, a LOT. My interest in sports/sporty cars declines rapidly as weight increases beyond ~3200 lb., and goes up rapidly below 3000 lb. I would honestly rather have a 2700 lb. 200hp 2+2 rwd coupe than a 3400 lb. one with 400hp.

For pure driving enjoyment, I'd *much* rather have an Elise than an infinitely faster GT-R.

IMO this car looks to be *brilliant*, even with "only" 200hp and inferior power/weight. Sick to death of all the overwrought/overweight "sports" cars and coupes. It's about freaking time we got a car like this! It's been way too long...

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I care what it weighs, a LOT. My interest in sports/sporty cars declines rapidly as weight increases beyond ~3200 lb., and goes up rapidly below 3000 lb. I would honestly rather have a 2700 lb. 200hp 2+2 rwd coupe than a 3400 lb. one with 400hp.

For pure driving enjoyment, I'd *much* rather have an Elise than an infinitely faster GT-R.

IMO this car looks to be *brilliant*, even with "only" 200hp and inferior power/weight. Sick to death of all the overwrought/overweight "sports" cars and coupes. It's about freaking time we got a car like this! It's been way too long...

To be honest, I too, care a lot about weight. My last car was a BMW Z4 3.0si 6MT and small lighweight roadsters always have been my favorite cars to drive. I've owned a Z4 M Roadster, Boxster S, Z3 and a list of other cars. Although, I agree with you with regards to weight I also know that a vast majority of car owners will never see a track or road course. So based on that alone, what most people will care about is how well the car handles/feels and how fast/quick it will be. Those two things are really the result of suspension tunning and power to weight ratios. So all I was saying is that, for most people, out right low weight won't mean much. Since the FRS/BRZ won't really be considered a fast car that argument might mean something more. That is all...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

But all of that would add weight and one would also argue that it isn't optimal for track with the added weight tacked on to the elise.

My point, you have missed it...

One thing you're forgetting on that feature list is the suspension being a bit softer also if they was to make a GT model Elise.

Even with a softer suspension, it's infintely more a "sports car" (to me, anyway) than a sportified track-only version of a DB9 would be. In the same way that a stock Miata is more a sports car (to me) than a much more track-focused Boss 302 Mustang.

Let's take the 911 for comparison. The GT3 is voided of any features that is luxury oriented and everything on the car is sharpened for track duty and the backseats is ditched and the car loses 150 lbs.

That's not even 5%, and it still weighs well over 3000 lb. Way way WAY the hell faster in every way than 60s/70s 911s, to be sure, but it's definitely migrated in the GT direction (not that it's all bad, the same could be said of the original 911 vs. the 356 it replaced).

The GT3 is much better than the 911 at being a sports car. A car doesn't have to be superlight to become a much better performance machine as car manufacturers would prove you wrong.

If being a "sports car" is only about performance numbers, sure.
But, for me, a sports car is first and foremost a much smaller/lighter-weight machine than cars for the masses, whether it produces stellar performance numbers or not.

I read a story where Autoblog was more crazy about the Nismo 370Z than the regular 370Z. They described the difference as GT to Sports car.

OK, that's their definition. To me, a stock base Miata is much more a "sports car" than any 370Z, which is essentially a de-luxified 2-seat G37.

If being a sports car is only about absolute performance (and for more and more this seems to be the case), then the Panamera Turbo S is definitely a "sports car" amongst sports cars! But not to me...

[fatoni]

if you guys are gonna keep going on like weight is the single most important factor than just buy a smartcar. about as sporty as things get

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if you guys are gonna keep going on like weight is the single most important factor than just buy a smartcar. about as sporty as things get

It's hard to get through to Zdan. Everything lightweight is a sports car to him. I need to tell my GF her POS Civic is much sportier than my RSX since it is lighter.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if you guys are gonna keep going on like weight is the single most important factor than just buy a smartcar. about as sporty as things get

If they'd imported this one to the US, I'd have bought one:



...and swapped in a Hayabusa drivetrain

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

It's hard to get through to Zdan. Everything lightweight is a sports car to him. I need to tell my GF her POS Civic is much sportier than my RSX since it is lighter.

I never said that *anything* lightweight is a sports car.

Standard upright Smart car? Not a sports car. Yaris? Not a sports car.

Also, RSX = far from a sports car...

[miata]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I never said that *anything* lightweight is a sports car.

Standard upright Smart car? Not a sports car. Yaris? Not a sports car.

Also, RSX = far from a sports car...

RSX is not far from a sports car. Prep it for track with proper suspension, tires, and driver and it will keep up with what you call sports cars.

[ZDan]

Again, if sports car = FAST, a Panamera S is a sports car.

And anyway, as far as being able to mod an RSX to make it fast, you can do the same with just about any car. Therefore, just about *any* car = "sports car"?

Calling anything that, with proper suspension, tires and driver can be made to be reasonably fast, kinda makes the term "sports car" utterly meaningless...

Not that I think "sports car" should just mean FAST, anyway, obviously I don't.