FA20T swap from the new subaru forester direct bolt in?

[regal]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

The majority of Subaru's sales are of n/a vehicles - as sexy as the turbo models sound, they are not the volume sellers. There is many more Legacy, Outback, and Impreza 2.5i's on the market than there are XT/WRX versions.

But they had a linup of gas gazzlers, this is why automakers are moving toward small DIT engines, correct? I mean even a $16k Chevy Sonic has a DIT engine now. Its not about being sexy its about meeting Café.

[Dephective]

Mazda's MZR DI turbo application has been around for quite some time now and is pretty well suited for the task. Gobs of torque on the low end. That system is very well engineered. The problem is all that torque on the low end without the timing advancement (knock retardation) causes ridiculous stresses on the internals causing bent rods. All DI turbo applications currently have this problem. The solution for Audi and BMW was to have much more stout rods, Mazda didn't couldn't go that route and stay in their price point.

The small turbo having such quick response and proper DI setup is responsible for the low end torque. This is what you want in a DD for putting around town. For a sports car you would want high end flow and a torque curve that had power throughout the band. It all comes down to sizing the turbo. You can slap a massive turbo to pretty much any modern stock block and run moderately high boost because the torque comes on so linearly rather than peaky. MZR guys have been doing this on stock block making over 600wtq because the torque curve doesn't destroy the rods.

Smaller turbo=massive low end torque, but hell on internals (luxury/supercar manufacturers avoid this by hiding cost of stout forged materials in the cost)
Larger turbo=lacks low end torque, high power, not ideal for daily driving, not nearly as bad on internals.

Car manufacturers design a car for the largest possible market, not the obscure enthusiast. There are always going to be tradeoffs.

I've had years of experience with DI before this, as I had an MZR in my speed 6.

[Dephective]

To to sum up, To have a high revving sports coupe with a DI turbo application it would be ideal to have a moderately sized turbo that made a linear curve that made peak boost around 4K with redline being 7500 or GREATER.

"But what about all that range below?!"

Aside from a very technical Autocross course, the majority of your time would be well beyond 3000rpm.

This kills fuel economy, which is why it doesn't happen that way for affordable DI turbo applications.

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by regal

But they had a linup of gas gazzlers, this is why automakers are moving toward small DIT engines, correct? I mean even a $16k Chevy Sonic has a DIT engine now. Its not about being sexy its about meeting Café.

The current Impreza already has a f-series motor, the FB20 n/a. With the CVT transmission, it's getting 27 city/36 freeway, has 145~148 ft/lbs of torque, and doesn't require premium gas. A DIT version will make more power, but will likely use more gas and will require premium gas as well, plus will have far higher insurance rates.

[CajunFRS]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

The current Impreza already has a f-series motor, the FB20 n/a. With the CVT transmission, it's getting 27 city/36 freeway, has 145~148 ft/lbs of torque, and doesn't require premium gas. A DIT version will make more power, but will likely use more gas and will require premium gas as well, plus will have far higher insurance rates.

The bump in power from DIT will make insurance go up? I hope you're kidding. You even said far higher. I won't go into what I do for a living but that's a big stretch. Makes me wonder about how much half truth is in important data.

[wparsons]

I doubt more power would effect insurance much at all... I got insurance quotes on the FRS and also a Mazda 3 Skyactiv (not a MS3!) and Focus Titanium (not ST!) before buying the FRS and the FRS was the cheapest by about $10/month. Not huge savings, but I figured it would be more expensive considering the other two are econobox wagons with 40 less hp and far less handling potential.

[AVOturboworld]

You guys should really check on the insurance differences between the Impreza 2.5i and the Impreza WRX (and the STI). For a lot of people in many areas, the cost difference is quite significant.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

You guys should really check on the insurance differences between the Impreza 2.5i and the Impreza WRX (and the STI). For a lot of people in many areas, the cost difference is quite significant.

That's probably because of theft and claims from how the average WRX/STI gets driven, not because it makes more power than the 2.5i.

[Hindi]

Safety has a much larger effect on insurance premiums than performance.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

You guys should really check on the insurance differences between the Impreza 2.5i and the Impreza WRX (and the STI). For a lot of people in many areas, the cost difference is quite significant.

Back in 2008 when I picked up a 2007 Impreza 2.5i wagon, the insurance difference between that and a 2007 WRX wagon was not that different. The difference was less than $100 every 6 months (I pay my insurance every 6 months).

[CajunFRS]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

You guys should really check on the insurance differences between the Impreza 2.5i and the Impreza WRX (and the STI). For a lot of people in many areas, the cost difference is quite significant.

I think it would be best for AVO to stay clear of discussing insurance. The amount of misguided information on the subject is crystal clear. Insurance takes so many more things in to consideration then a slight HP bump. My Challenger had cheaper insurance rates with 370+ HP.

[Slash]

My ms3 was $15 a month cheaper than my frs. 21y/o 0 tickets, accidents and claims.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[Kostamojen]

And a Focus ST was $15 more per year than my BRZ if I got that instead...

Insurance rates depend on so many things its.impossible to tell these days.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

And a Focus ST was $15 more per year than my BRZ if I got that instead...

Insurance rates depend on so many things its.impossible to tell these days.

That's weird. Here's another weird one... When I traded in my Mazda 2 for a new Acura TL, my insurance went down ~$300/year. Full identical coverage on both cars.