Toyota is Working on a GT86 Hybrid

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Manual gearboxes are going to disappear.

Originally Posted by chulooz

How can you say that when 80% of this cars sales have been in MT?

Because manual gearboxes are disappearing.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Because manual gearboxes are disappearing.

The point was that they are found in a majority of average performance cars and are popular; yes they are nearly gone in the vanilla car world, but performance cars show the opposite.

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by chulooz

The point was that they are found in a majority of average performance cars and are popular; yes they are nearly gone in the vanilla car world, but performance cars show the opposite.

Actually most performance brands, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. are going exclusively to paddle shift automatics. Its well known the 911 automatic transmission is better than the manual. This GT3, Turbo, and the now Nuremberg record holding 918 all only come with automatics. Also the Ferrari 458 is only available with auto.

FYI I love manual transmissions.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

Actually most performance brands, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. are going exclusively to paddle shift automatics. Its well known the 911 automatic transmission is better than the manual. This GT3, Turbo, and the now Nuremberg record holding 918 (CVT) all only come with automatics. Also the Ferrari 458 is only available with auto.

FYI I love manual transmissions.

I said average performance cars; speaking of porsche, they spent the time to make a 7 spd MT, why? Because thats what paying customers wanted.

Lots and lots of people think that faster=better, but for many manual lovers that isnt true. The pressure of the clutch, the switch of the lever, and a blip of a throttle is something that millions cannot live without. Those who think MTs will disappear fail to see the economics behind offering the standard transmission.

[onefitz]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

Actually most performance brands, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. are going exclusively to paddle shift automatics. Its well known the 911 automatic transmission is better than the manual. This GT3, Turbo, and the now Nuremberg record holding 918 (CVT) all only come with automatics. Also the Ferrari 458 is only available with auto.

FYI I love manual transmissions.

Those are all using dual clutch transmissions. Not the torque convertor style automatic that Toyota is using in the GT86. And last I heard the 918 was using a PDK variant. A CVT wouldn't be able to handle the torque from the 918.

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by onefitz

Those are all using dual clutch transmissions. Not the torque convertor style automatic that Toyota is using in the GT86. And last I heard the 918 was using a PDK variant. A CVT wouldn't be able to handle the torque from the 918.

I mean PDK, not CVT, thank you for the correction.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chulooz

How can you say that when 80% of this cars sales have been in MT? The consumers have spoken.

Because Subaru/Toyota deliberately fit an automatic with inappropriate gear ratios. Fit a shorter final drive to a BTZ automatic to correct this and very few drivers would want a manual.

Also, the manual shift would be unpopular if a DCT were offered instead.

Manual shift cars are SLOW.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by smbrm

I don't get the negative weight argument for hybrid vs. the support for 6 cylinder? Last time I thought about it, a V6 weighed more than a 4 cylinder! The extra weight on the front would have a significant impact on the weight distribution, that would probably require a rear transaxle to adjust. Both of which would add substantially to cost! Maybe for a supra version, but it would not be light!

Besides, I believe they are talking about capacitors which should be lighter than even the 67lb battery of the Prius C. Granted you do have weight from the electric motor(s), but packaged properly and producing a higher torque to weight ratio, then why couldn't the car still be fun to to drive?

The new hybrid design replaces the starter, the alternator and the torque converter and should run at least at 42 volts which is much more efficient than 12 volts.

The magic of the next gen hybrids includes seamless stop start, electric only range within urban areas, push to pass acceleration and KERS. All this with a nominal weight penalty, if any. Why would you turn it down?

[onefitz]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Also, the manual shift would be unpopular if a DCT were offered instead.

Manual shift cars are SLOW.

Sure the DCT is faster, but I'd bet the sales of a DCT vs the MT would stay about where they are now with the traditional automatic.

Hell look at the uproar over Porsche only offering the PDK in the new GT3.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Because Subaru/Toyota deliberately fit an automatic with inappropriate gear ratios. Fit a shorter final drive to a BTZ automatic to correct this and very few drivers would want a manual.

Also, the manual shift would be unpopular if a DCT were offered instead.

Manual shift cars are SLOW.

Now you are just trolling.

Some people dont understand that people love dumping their own clutch and shift their own gears, even if it costs them .3 seconds on their drive down the street. You are in the 20% minority sorry, gear ratios isnt going to change that.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

I mean PDK, not CVT, thank you for the correction.

Actually the PDK of the same weight as an equivalent torque converter planetary transmission has less than half the torque capability.

Planetary transmissions are more efficient than DCT.

Mercedes Benz has a planetary transmission with a wet plate clutch instead if the torque converter, for example.

DCT are for lighter and less powerful cars where the weight disadvantage isn't as significant.

The Bugatti Veyron DCT is a specially designed and built, bespoke transmission supplied by Ricardo engineering in the UK. Very expensive.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Now you are just trolling.

Some people dont understand that people love dumping their own clutch and shift their own gears, even if it costs them .3 seconds on their drive down the street. You are in the 20% minority sorry, gear ratios isnt going to change that.

Not trolling. I am correcting irrational prejudice against automatic transmissions.

Torque converter automatics are ALSO faster than manual shift.

BMW supplies all of their cars with 8 spd torque converter automatics or DCT type transmissions except in the US.

It is absolutely incorrect to suggest a manual transmission is technically superior in any way to a modern automatic. They are inferior.

The ONLY reason to spec a manual transmission is for historical curiosity, which is why my BRZ has one.

Dumping your clutch is also dumb and slow.

[chulooz]

Historical curiosity??? How about driver engagement; kinda goes with the theme of the car.

What prejudice did I claim about ATs?

[onefitz]

Originally Posted by Suberman

The ONLY reason to spec a manual transmission is for historical curiosity, which is why my BRZ has one.

Dumping your clutch is also dumb and slow.

Or if you plan on modifying the car immensely. Or you don't want a computer doing everything for you.

I don't see where 'dumb and slow' plays into a good hard launch.