SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Kido1986]

I did pretty poor but the car was AWESOME. TRev's car is amazingly neutral and almost telepathic. I will have a more indepth writeup of my experience in the next few days though.

He took 4th. MSR is just a huge overdog in C, it should have been moved this year like the SEB showed intentions of, but forgot :/

[Biggins]

Cool, I'm anxious to see all the recaps from Nats.

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

I did pretty poor but the car was AWESOME. TRev's car is amazingly neutral and almost telepathic. I will have a more indepth writeup of my experience in the next few days though.

He took 4th. MSR is just a huge overdog in C, it should have been moved this year like the SEB showed intentions of, but forgot :/

It was great running with you guys! I'm already looking forward to next year in my own car.

[Kido1986]

Fellow RTR/C-Street members:

We have an issue at hand. Next year is threatened by a newly found cheater pound R1R (akin to the infamous 195/50/15). It is 235/40/17. I have written the SEB asking them to ban this tire as it requires shaving to the point of giving 30 runs before running out of magic. This magic is actually RCompound rubber underneath the street compound. STX was won by these at Nationals, in an RX8. A class dominated by E36 and twins.

My letter is quoted below. Please do not copy/paste it but use it for talking points for your own letter.

http://crbscca.com/ is the site to write the letter.

It came to my (and many others') attention this past week at Nationals that there is an additional R1R with an R Compound underneath. You've already banned the 195/50/15 from RTR/Street and I would really like to see this tire removed as well (it appears to be the same compound as the banned 195/50). 235/40/17 Toyo R1R is the tire I'm referring to.
Street class cannot afford sets of $800 tires that last 20-25 competitive runs. This would completely ruin the class, making it cost more than any set of Hoosiers could dream of. I refer to the STX Nationals winner, who tested a borrowed set during the TnT days then overnighted a set in to run an RX8 up to the front, over all of the incumbents (when RX8s generally are back a few spots from the BRZs and E36s).
I hope this is brought up for the next meeting and FastTrack.
Thank you
-Henry Clark

[xwd]

To be fair Hurst and Palotta have run neck and neck the whole year, with Palotta just edging him out most of the time. I believe he also ran the 2nd fastest STX time at Nats on day 2 last year, only behind Heitkotter.

Others have tested the R1R and didn't find the same impressive results, but it wasn't on Lincoln concrete during late summer which seems to be very different than most other locations.

I will write a letter as well in support of banning them. The should have just stuck with moving to 200TW tires next year.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by dwx

To be fair Hurst and Palotta have run neck and neck the whole year, with Palotta just edging him out most of the time. I believe he also ran the 2nd fastest STX time at Nats on day 2 last year, only behind Heitkotter.

Others have tested the R1R and didn't find the same impressive results, but it wasn't on Lincoln concrete during late summer which seems to be very different than most other locations.

I will write a letter as well in support of banning them. The should have just stuck with moving to 200TW tires next year.

I think a specific exclusion is best incase they pull a Hankook and rerate them, since there is no governing body for treadwear.

[xwd]

I would agree.

I'm still waiting for some factual data on the actual construction of the 235/40/17. From reading in the past about the 195/50/15 the tires do not have an "R" compound underneath. All of the R1Rs use the same tread compounds. What's different is the lower load rating tires have more "soft" compound rubber than the higher load rating tires. The higher load rating tires have 3-4/32" of rubber which extends into the tread block where the lower load rating ones do not. The cheater tires with more soft compound aren't very good full tread depth because they are squirmy due to the soft compound, so people have to shave them for them to be good. The ST guys running them shave them to 5/32".

[jprice130]

I personally hope they only ban the specific sizes that may be "unfair". I actually plan to continue co-driving my friend's Lotus Elise in the new "street" version of Super Stock next season (We've been running SS on Hoosiers this year). The Toyo R1R is the only "Extreme Performance" tire that provides a size that would work decently on the front of the Elise's stock wheels. We need 205/45/16 up front, so the R1R is the only option for us. A couple other manufacturers make 205/50/16, but that sidewall is not the best for the Elise's rake and can mess with the balance of the ABS.

For the rear, we run 245/40/17, so we have plenty of options there. I just wish the ZII, Rivals, RE-11a, RS3 came in a size that worked on the front of the Elise.

So in short, please don't request the R1Rs get completely banned from the new "Street" classes! Hopefully, a decent 200TW tire comes out by 2015 that we can run on the Elise.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by jprice130

I personally hope they only ban the specific sizes that may be "unfair". I actually plan to continue co-driving my friend's Lotus Elise in the new "street" version of Super Stock next season (We've been running SS on Hoosiers this year). The Toyo R1R is the only "Extreme Performance" tire that provides a size that would work decently on the front of the Elise's stock wheels. We need 205/45/16 up front, so the R1R is the only option for us. A couple other manufacturers make 205/50/16, but that sidewall is not the best for the Elise's rake and can mess with the balance of the ABS.

For the rear, we run 245/40/17, so we have plenty of options there. I just wish the ZII, Rivals, RE-11a, RS3 came in a size that worked on the front of the Elise.

So in short, please don't request the R1Rs get completely banned from the new "Street" classes! Hopefully, a decent 200TW tire comes out by 2015 that we can run on the Elise.

SS gets to keep their r comps right? Would there be a lot of people in SS that would switch to street tires? I thought with the new Street classes the RT classes would disappear.

[7thgear]

i posted this question in the suspension forum but will post here in case not everyone reads the other


has anyone here went through the hoops to have a custom-valved koni damper insert made for their car for use with OEM springs?

[jprice130]

Originally Posted by G_Ride

SS gets to keep their r comps right? Would there be a lot of people in SS that would switch to street tires? I thought with the new Street classes the RT classes would disappear.

I might be behind on the various FastTrack updates, but I thought Super Stock would have a "street" version in 2014 just like all the other "street" classes and then there would be an SSR class which would still use R-comps like you can today.

As you may know, the Elise is not very competitive against the Vettes on Hoosiers, but I'm thinking/hoping that it will do much better in the "street" version of Super Stock, so that's why we're going that route next season. The big time Vette drivers will stay in SSR I'm sure, but hopefully a few folks come to play with us in the street tire version of the class.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

i posted this question in the suspension forum but will post here in case not everyone reads the other


has anyone here went through the hoops to have a custom-valved koni damper insert made for their car for use with OEM springs?

I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet. I'm sure someone will do it eventually or has already done it and not told anyone. I know a few RX-8 guys that do it.

Originally Posted by jprice130

I might be behind on the various FastTrack updates, but I thought Super Stock would have a "street" version in 2014 just like all the other "street" classes and then there would be an SSR class which would still use R-comps like you can today.

As you may know, the Elise is not very competitive against the Vettes on Hoosiers, but I'm thinking/hoping that it will do much better in the "street" version of Super Stock, so that's why we're going that route next season. The big time Vette drivers will stay in SSR I'm sure, but hopefully a few folks come to play with us in the street tire version of the class.

You're right, there will be a street tire version of SS.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by G_Ride

I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet. I'm sure someone will do it eventually or has already done it and not told anyone. I know a few RX-8 guys that do it.

the RX8 guys, do they feel it was worth the re-valving cost over using off-the-shelf and fine tuning the rebound according to their butt?

[celica73]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

i posted this question in the suspension forum but will post here in case not everyone reads the other


has anyone here went through the hoops to have a custom-valved koni damper insert made for their car for use with OEM springs?

I did years ago when I was autocrossing a 7th gen Celica. I had off the shelf koni's converted to double adjustable and revalved at the same time. It took a looonnnngggg time and some pestering to get the shocks done (4 months) and it was fairly expensive.

You also need to know what valving to tell them to use.