LOLing at the guys on the370z.com

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by fatoni

The point is that they are fast because of power. Not weight. If weight mattered more than power you would see the miata and Elise in that talk.

I was just pointing it out as you made your last statement that the fastest cars in the world are heavy but they aren't

I also think you are wrong about that point. They are fast because like miata said power and weight

Also fast as in top speed you need lots of power but say you were talking about being fast as in fast everywhere then weight is a big big deal considering it does improve all aspects.

Prefect example being the Ariel Atom V8.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I was just pointing it out as you made your last statement that the fastest cars in the world are heavy but they aren't

I also think you are wrong about that point. They are fast because like miata said power and weight

Also fast as in top speed you need lots of power but say you were talking about being fast as in fast everywhere then weight is a big big deal considering it does improve all aspects.

Prefect example being the Ariel Atom V8.

i can find cars that are not light but are fast but there arent cars that are not powerful but are fast. thats all im saying. i dont know how the 500 hp atom you mention is an example to the contrary. in all those previous examples you end up spending exotic money for common weight. i guess my point is that the fastest cars in the world have the most power but they arent the lightest. i understand that weight is a big deal but all you have proven is that light and powerful cars are fast. we both know that there are powerful cars that are fast. i have yet to see a light car without power be fast

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i can find cars that are not light but are fast but there arent cars that are not powerful but are fast. thats all im saying. i dont know how the 500 hp atom you mention is an example to the contrary. in all those previous examples you end up spending exotic money for common weight. i guess my point is that the fastest cars in the world have the most power but they arent the lightest. i understand that weight is a big deal but all you have proven is that light and powerful cars are fast. we both know that there are powerful cars that are fast. i have yet to see a light car without power be fast

Light, powerful, cheap. Choose two.

For those of us who can't afford an atom, it's a lot easier to buy a cheap light car and make it more powerful than to buy a cheap powerful car and make it light. I don't think the frs will be the fastest car in the world in stock form but I do think it will be easy to swap in an EJ207 and then it will be pretty damn fast.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Light, powerful, cheap. Choose two.

For those of us who can't afford an atom, it's a lot easier to buy a cheap light car and make it more powerful than to buy a cheap powerful car and make it light. I don't think the frs will be the fastest car in the world in stock form but I do think it will be easy to swap in an EJ207 and then it will be pretty damn fast.

im not arguing that statement. for the most part i agree. except i feel like buying a brand new car and then swapping the motor sounds expensive to me

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i can find cars that are not light but are fast but there arent cars that are not powerful but are fast. thats all im saying. i dont know how the 500 hp atom you mention is an example to the contrary. in all those previous examples you end up spending exotic money for common weight. i guess my point is that the fastest cars in the world have the most power but they arent the lightest. i understand that weight is a big deal but all you have proven is that light and powerful cars are fast. we both know that there are powerful cars that are fast. i have yet to see a light car without power be fast

an agile/fast car and a car that can reach highest top speed are not the same. If you're looking for a car that can reach highest top speed power matters more than weight, but if you're looking for a fast car both matter.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

an agile/fast car and a car that can reach highest top speed are not the same. If you're looking for a car that can reach highest top speed power matters more than weight, but if you're looking for a fast car both matter.

i know but you make it sound like going fast and being agile are two separate things. as you go faster, it takes more power to fight resistance. if you can name a car without power that is fast, im all ears

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i know but you make it sound like going fast and being agile are two separate things. as you go faster, it takes more power to fight resistance. if you can name a car without power that is fast, im all ears

Lemme bring you to another world of motorsport. BMW S1000RR has 193hp and 403lb dry. It can go from 0-60 under 2.9 sec and quarter mile at low 8sec. The top speed is over 190mph. Does it have 1000hp or 3000lb?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

Lemme bring you to another world of motorsport. BMW S1000RR has 193hp and 403lb dry. It can go from 0-60 under 2.9 sec and quarter mile at low 8sec. The top speed is over 190mph. Does it have 1000hp or 3000lb?

as much as i hate to use top gear as any sort of reference, if you want to go to the extremes of this conversation we could talk about how the very bike you mentioned was bested by the v8 atom with more power, more weight, and a worse power to weight ratio. we can pick examples to make any bold statement we want but i still think that all the fastest cars have tons of power while not all the fastest cars are incredibly light weight.

this doesnt mean i dont think weight is important. it just means that you can make up for weight albeit in very expensive fashion but there is no getting around not having power

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

as much as i hate to use top gear as any sort of reference, if you want to go to the extremes of this conversation we could talk about how the very bike you mentioned was bested by the v8 atom with more power, more weight, and a worse power to weight ratio. we can pick examples to make any bold statement we want but i still think that all the fastest cars have tons of power while not all the fastest cars are incredibly light weight.

this doesnt mean i dont think weight is important. it just means that you can make up for weight albeit in very expensive fashion but there is no getting around not having power

Power-weight ratio differences? Ariel Atom is very light for a 4 wheel and its power to weight ratio is higher than S1000RR. Try to pick a car with same power-weight ratio but with twice the weight to compete with Atom at the track. Then again, you were talking about straightline top speed. I just proved that a machine doesn't have to packed with 1000hp to be fast. You just help me proving it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

Power-weight ratio differences? Ariel Atom is very light for a 4 wheel and its power to weight ratio is higher than S1000RR. Try to pick a car with same power-weight ratio but with twice the weight to compete with Atom at the track. Then again, you were talking about straightline top speed. I just proved that a machine doesn't have to packed with 1000hp to be fast. You just help me proving it.

i dont get what youre saying. that motorcycle is not a car. motorcycles dont have to deal with nearly as much drag. the v8 atom is light but it has a lot of power.

if you are arguing just to argue then thats fine. it seems thats kinda what this forum is for until the car comes out. but if you are trying to convince me that power doesnt matter because a car with 500hp is fast then i dont know what to say

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont get what youre saying. that motorcycle is not a car. motorcycles dont have to deal with nearly as much drag. the v8 atom is light but it has a lot of power.

if you are arguing just to argue then thats fine. it seems thats kinda what this forum is for until the car comes out. but if you are trying to convince me that power doesnt matter because a car with 500hp is fast then i dont know what to say

Ok, so what I said was:

Originally Posted by Dark
an agile/fast car and a car that can reach highest top speed are not the same. If you're looking for a car that can reach highest top speed power matters more than weight, but if you're looking for a fast car both matter.

and what you said was:

Originally Posted by fatoni
i know but you make it sound like going fast and being agile are two separate things. as you go faster, it takes more power to fight resistance. if you can name a car without power that is fast, im all ears

I'm still not clear what you wanted to know. You want to know what is a fast/agile car ,or what is high top speed capable car?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

Ok, so what I said was:


and what you said was:




I'm still not clear what you wanted to know. You want to know what is a fast/agile car ,or what is high top speed capable car?

probably a combination of both. like what you would see on a road course. but even on tight courses id imagine power plays a huge roll. i remember there was a car and driver or something where they had a bentley autoxing with a miata and it won. not that it means a whole lot but i thought that was funny.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by fatoni

probably a combination of both. like what you would see on a road course. but even on tight courses id imagine power plays a huge roll. i remember there was a car and driver or something where they had a bentley autoxing with a miata and it won. not that it means a whole lot but i thought that was funny.

I said power matters when you want a top speed car, and power-weight ratio matter when you want an agile car.

Tell me what car without decent power-weight ratio is capable of doing both?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dark

I said power matters when you want a top speed car, and power-weight ratio matter when you want an agile car.

Tell me what car without decent power-weight ratio is capable of doing both?

now i think we are slowly veering away from the original concepts. i dont think agility has anything to do with power. and obviously a car with a ton of power is going to have a good power to weight ratio. all i was ever trying to do here was say that in the spectrum of production car weights and powers, the cars that are fastest are focusing on the extreme power more than extreme lighness.