8 Car Brands Falling Behind.....Scion on the list

[Frstorm]

I would chose the scion frs

[thill]

Originally Posted by regal

No someone is making a leap of faith based on commentary by a young designer who gives a good sales pitch. There are no guarantees, cars come and go. None of us know what will happen, but certainly neither Toyota or Subaru are selling dividends from the "success" of this car. I hope this car is the next Miata but it has a long way to go and the Scion brand issues are an obstacle. To not see that is some sort of denial.

Good sales pitch? Leap of faith? You are so full of BS. How about the theory that Akio Toyoda used Tada and the FT86 platform as a test to see how car enthusiasts and the press would respond.. If they succeeded they expand their sports car lineup. If it failed, well, then Toyota would go back to just making boring cars. Clearly somebody viewed it as a success since Toyota is moving forward with expanding their sports car lineup and is already talking about the next generation FT86 platorm. Again, your bitterness towards the platform and Tada has blinded that.

Tada, IMHO, is a genius. He changed the game. He listend to enthusiasts. He did not focus on just specs and make another GT car that was all about horsepower and torque numbers. He did not chase the competition, he created a new market.

He was right. And clearly the CEO of Toyota was onboard 100%.

The Scion brand is an obstacle for Toyota. The Scion brand has not been an obstacle for the FT86.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The original Mustang sold 1 million units in it's first 18 months. Is that your measuring stick?

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but to me, Mustangs aren't sports cars, they're muscle cars. Of course with that same logic, you could reasonably say muscle cars are kind of a subcategory of sports cars. All I know is that Mustangs, Camaros, and those Dodge things aren't desirable to me. So to me, they're a different class.

[Braces]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Yeah they should make Scion a full line up of sports cars. Like Porsche (pre VW involvement) just less expensive

baby FR-S
FR-S
supercharged FR-S
RWD sedan based off FR-S platform
Supra (or cheaper version of Supra if it's branded Toyota)
RWD sedan based off Supra

cha-ching!

I have a different idea. I think Toyota should have named the GT86/FRS.....CELICA. Instead of spreading themselves out with different brands .... Put their energy into bringing back the Celica name. The Celica name has history. Scion FRs has no history. The Celica name would have appealed to more of the older crowd. This would have increased sales. The next logical step is to bring the big brother to the "Celica (frs)" ...... The TOYOTA SUPRA.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by tacoss23

Let's face it, who will buy a Scion FR-S if we had a Toyota GT-86 right next to it? (assuming equal pricing, promos, etc)

This is true haha.

Originally Posted by Braces

I have a different idea. I think Toyota should have named the GT86/FRS.....CELICA. Instead of spreading themselves out with different brands .... Put their energy into bringing back the Celica name. The Celica name has history. Scion FRs has no history. The Celica name would have appealed to more of the older crowd. This would have increased sales. The next logical step is to bring the big brother to the "Celica (frs)" ...... The TOYOTA SUPRA.

General public would have assumed FWD and wrote it off. GT86 was perfect (invoking the original 86), but somehow we got FR-S.

[PITTFRS]

Sales will go back up as people who are going to be loyal to this brand buy their second scion. Remember scion is not an old company yet so alot of comsumers are still on their first scion.

[cfusionpm]

I don't remember seeing anything about this, but it could be because people are actually happy and satisfied with their cars and just AREN'T buying a new car? I bought my 2005 tC 8 years ago, and very much liked mine. I drove it every day for nearly a decade, and if it weren't for a rainy accident, I'd still be driving it today. With customers like me, they already got their sale in 2005 and nothing since then. If the FR-S didn't exist, the 2014 tC was very appealing to me.

[jblmr2]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

30k combined units (FRS & BRZ) in its first year in the US is a sales success to me.

I would agree and I believe the powers that be at Toyobaru believe the same. There is a shining example of a "slow sports car" that has managed to survive in spite of it's lack of power, the Miata/MX5. It's never sold more than 15K a year in the US since 2002. Me thinks there is money to be made or it wouldn't still be with us.

To Regal's question, will it be enough to sustain the car/brand long term? As to the car, if it continues to sell as well as the MX5, then yes it will survive under some name. Is it the salvation for the brand? It's a start but it won't accomplish it by itself. Scion needs to get back to being edgy like it was when the doors were first opened. Right now the affordable edgy cars are being built by the Koreans.

[thill]

Originally Posted by jblmr2

I would agree and I believe the powers that be at Toyobaru believe the same. There is a shining example of a "slow sports car" that has managed to survive in spite of it's lack of power, the Miata/MX5. It's never sold more than 15K a year in the US since 2002. Me thinks there is money to be made or it wouldn't still be with us.

To Regal's question, will it be enough to sustain the car/brand long term? As to the car, if it continues to sell as well as the MX5, then yes it will survive under some name. Is it the salvation for the brand? It's a start but it won't accomplish it by itself. Scion needs to get back to being edgy like it was when the doors were first opened. Right now the affordable edgy cars are being built by the Koreans.

Totally agree with you on Scion. The brand is only as good as the cars it sells. Hopefully for Toyota the FR-S is just the first in a new line of cars for Scion that will save the brand. If not, then the FR-S could get re-branded to a Toyota.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by jblmr2

I would agree and I believe the powers that be at Toyobaru believe the same. There is a shining example of a "slow sports car" that has managed to survive in spite of it's lack of power, the Miata/MX5. It's never sold more than 15K a year in the US since 2002. Me thinks there is money to be made or it wouldn't still be with us.

To Regal's question, will it be enough to sustain the car/brand long term? As to the car, if it continues to sell as well as the MX5, then yes it will survive under some name. Is it the salvation for the brand? It's a start but it won't accomplish it by itself. Scion needs to get back to being edgy like it was when the doors were first opened. Right now the affordable edgy cars are being built by the Koreans.

Well the whole reason Scion exists is because Toyota has built the "soccer mom" "affordable/reliable" "good MPG" market over the past decade and a half. People don't associate them with "cool" "sporty" or "luxury," which is the very reason why Scion and Lexus exist in the first place.

If Scion wants to succeed as a separate brand like Lexus, they need their own dealerships. Not just the "kid's corner" of your local Toyota dealer.

[jblmr2]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

If Scion wants to succeed as a separate brand like Lexus, they need their own dealerships. Not just the "kid's corner" of your local Toyota dealer.

I agree to some extent. The problem for Toyota is they're trying to appeal to a narrow age group with a limited number of product offerings. If they expand the offerings they will run the risk of cannibalizing sales of Toyota branded vehicles. If they try expand Scion's appeal to older age brackets, they run the risk of becoming just a cheaper version of a Toyota.

GM is a perfect example of branding gone awry. Too many brands not enough differentiation.

[InvalidJohnny5]

I'm not going to lie...I thought of Scion as the Kia-Hyundai version of Toyota. Which in a sense it is a cheap hip car, much like the FRS/BRZ. They honestly don't have to do much work for a new hothatch to compete with the Mazdaspeed3 or Focus ST. They could reuse the TC platform/engine, add FI to it, make it a hatch. Boom! New competitive model with a redesigned chassis and body. If they removed the rice from half of their cars it probably wouldn't look so cheap, but they basically made it a 'Fast N Furious' brand.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Yahoo finance.. Now there's an authoritative source on car companies..
Sales and percentages fluctuate all the time.. It takes a desperate columnist to come up with something sensational to print.. The FRS has been scions biggest seller for the brand.. I'm sure many at Toyota view it as a complete success.. It all depends on how you look at it.. I think Toyota succeeded in making a brand that delivers entry level cars at value pricing.. It removed the stigma that people had associating boring appliance like cars with its brand..

While I agree with you about "Yahoo finance," just because one car is doing well, doesn't mean the company isn't about to die. All of this has been mentioned on page one, early page two and has been discussed many times before on this forum. Sales are up BECAUSE of the FRS, and Toyota is scaling back on Scion. This tells me that the FRS really is Scions swan song. No reason to think that the brand won't die in the next 5-10 year and the money maker (FRS) will continue with a different brand on it's hood and trunk.

I say let scion die. As many people have mentioned, you couldn't pay me enough to own a scion.....before the FRS was released.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I say let scion die. As many people have mentioned, you couldn't pay me enough to own a scion.....before the FRS was released.

The tC was actually a really great car when it first came out. Looked good, seated 5, had relatively sporty performance (well... mine had I/E, springs and short shifter), got good MPG on 87 octane, and more space inside than I knew what to do with. Also at the time, the only thing close to style and performance was the Acura RSX, which retailed for several thousand more. I absolutely loved mine and couldn't care less what other people thought about the car or the brand.