Eneos 75w-90 Oil for MT

[Numb]

I know it is a GL5 only gear oil but, I put Eneos 75w-90 Gear Oil in my Manual Transmission and I like it the best out of the 3 different gear oils that I have tried. I did as much research as I could before putting it in the car. All the reports that I read seem to conclude that it was safe for yellow metals and this was supported by a Blackstone Report from a few RX8 guys. The RX8 transmission has brass synchros and is rated for GL4 just like ours and those guys have been using this with great sucess.

I went from stock to Motul Gear 300. Motul was better but not great. Still some synchro problems and the odd grind into 2nd.

I changed from Motul to Redline MTL. Car felt much better. Synchros worked better and a little less grinding. Felt less "stiff" compared to the Motul. As reported by a number of people on here, this tranny seems to like a thinner fluid. But I felt there was still room for improvement. I considered Pentosin but decided to try the Eneos 75w-90 instead.

The car feels fantastic with the Eneos. Shifting is smoother, no grinding. Just feels right to me.

Has anyone else tried the Eneos 75w-90. Not much info on it on here other than people dismissing it as a rear diff only fluid for being a GL5. I wouldn't mind hearing from someone else to see what they think of it.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Numb

All the reports that I read seem to conclude that it was safe for yellow metals and this was supported by a Blackstone Report from a few RX8 guys. The RX8 transmission has brass synchros and is rated for GL4 just like ours and those guys have been using this with great sucess.

Good. Please contact the RX8 guys if you have any powertrain warranty claims.

So does this Eneos gear oil contain 30-50% less extreme pressure additives than a GL4 oil? The only advise that I would take, other than the manufacturer, is from someone that actually blends gear oil.

Good luck!
:happy0180:
-Dennis

[448hpsti]

Do NOT use a gl5 where it calls for a gl4

[Numb]

Not all GL5's are the same.

I have had it in there for 300kms and shifting has never felt better.

If it is safe for the brass synchros then what other damage can it be doing?

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Numb

Not all GL5's are the same.

I have had it in there for 300kms and shifting has never felt better.

If it is safe for the brass synchros then what other damage can it be doing?

How do you know this? Did Eneos say that it is safe for the synchros? I would presume that if it is safe for the synchros, then it would be a GL5 oil that also meets GL4 like Motul Gear 300.

Do you know the exact level of zinc, phosphorus, and especially sulfur? AFAIK, Blackstone does not test for sulfur and low ZDDP that shows up in a Blackstone uoa does not mean that sulfur is also low and sulfur is a predominate additive in gear oil. If sulfur is 40-60% lower than on a GL5 then you're probably fine. There have been many Subaru owners that trashed their gears and synchros on gear oil that had a good shifting feel.

More info:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php

http://www.eneos.us/product/8

Most GL5 differential and GL4 Manual Transmission oils contain sulfur-phosphorous EP packages. GL4 does NOT refer to any specific viscosity, but it refers to a level of AW/EP protection for the gearing and bearings in a transmission. GL4-rated oils contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additives that GL5 oils contain.
MTL specific lubes we're developed for manual tranny's and transaxles, and not for differentials or industrial gear boxes...

A differential lube may not kill your tranny, but it is not the optimum lube for it. A diffy 75W90 (GL5) usually has a higher viscosity than does an mtl in the same advertized weight.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1231182&page=1

Post the voa in the Gear Oil forum at bitog and Molakule may respond and give you his input on it. Do you have a link for it?

-Dennis

[rice_classic]

Don't use gear oil in your transmission.

[Numb]

Here is a copy of the UOA of Eneos 75w90 from an RX8 Aisin Transmission

[bluesubie]

So that's a used oil analysis from an RX-8. I was thinking that it was a virgin oil analysis. Like I mentioned, knowing the sulfur level would be beneficial. And only two uoa's are not definitive that there will not be a problem in this application down the road. First, two random uoa's are better suited to tell you about the condition of the lubricant, not that it is or is not a good indication that something is wearing out.
See this article on uoa's:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

Second, be careful when comparing uoa's in two different applications. Even when comparing a uoa in another FR-S/BRZ, results may be completely different from yours because of different driving conditions, mods, state of tune, etc.

Show me 5-10 consecutive 15k mile FR-S/BRZ uoa's with low copper, then I might say that this gear oil is fine. And that's only after I receive confirmation from someone in the industry like an employee of Eneos or maybe Molakule at bobistheoilguy because he blends gear oils. Or maybe 3-5 Dyson Advanced uoa's with commentary by Terry Dyson. You get what you pay for. http://dysonanalysis.com/Dyson_Analysis

Do you know much make-up oil was added? The column in the uoa states 2 quarts but the comments say 1/2 quart. Make-up oil skews the uoa results a bit and may make wear metals look better than they actually are. If the next uoa shows still increasing aluminum, Blackstone will probably say there is a problem.

-Dennis

[chaoskaze]

Sorry to dig up a fossil thread, but actually I'm using Eneos as well & love it. Eneos did say it's safe for synchro on their site & I research a bit seem to be yellow metal friendly.

Anyone mind explain to me how gear oil rated in GL5 is bad idea in ur transmission??

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

Sorry to dig up a fossil thread, but actually I'm using Eneos as well & love it. Eneos did say it's safe for synchro on their site & I research a bit seem to be yellow metal friendly.

Anyone mind explain to me how gear oil rated in GL5 is bad idea in ur transmission??

And thank you for spending your money to be the guinea pig. Saves me from doing it.

Scroll up, read post #5. It's typically a general statement and why? Because most normal folks don't have the intelligence, patience or aptitude to do the research so it just easier to say.. "Run Gear oil in your differential, run Transmission fluid in your transmission."

New transmissions, especially many coming out of Japan (all of Honda Manual transmissions for example) are specifically designed to run a lubricant with the viscosity close to 10w-30 which has a cSt rating of 8.5-10 or so at 100C that also have the proper additive packages for the synchros.

75w-90 Gear oils have a cSt rating of 14-16 at 100C. Typically gear oils not only lack the extra additive packages for optimal synchro engagement and longevity but some actually have chemicals in them that harm brass synchros. Like I said, typically, but not always. We don't have large hypoid type transmissions and the lubrication needs of our transmission is different.

The other part is the thickness. The gears in the transmission act like a pump and there's several small passages leading to things like needle-bearing-collars that the gearsets ride on and they are dependent on oil flow. If those passages plug, if flow is reduced.. excessive wear can/will occur. If you're going to racing your car in the summer desert heat then we'll talk but until then, thicker isn't better.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

And thank you for spending your money to be the guinea pig. Saves me from doing it.

Haha ok

Originally Posted by rice_classic

If you're going to racing your car in the summer desert heat then we'll talk but until then, thicker isn't better.

How? I mean I do live in vegas...so... 100 is a everyday thing in the summer. Can you explain why?

I guess I have to trust Eneos on this then..........So far I really really Love it, it's much cheaper then motul & feels amazing. I will report back after another 10k.

Wish I live in Japan then I could have just gotten myself some Wako's Super MT and be done with it. All Area 86 stock them...pretty much designed for our car.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

How? I mean I do live in vegas...so... 100 is a everyday thing in the summer. Can you explain why?

Well.. I can explain why, but at this point I just don't think it will be doing any good. You've failed to comprehend a lot of good information thus far so putting anymore out there seems counter productive.

Enjoy your gear oil.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Well.. I can explain why, but at this point I just don't think it will be doing any good. You've failed to comprehend a lot of good information thus far so putting anymore out there seems counter productive.

Enjoy your gear oil.

Hey I'm not trolling Come on how is explaining a bit gonna hurt you? Live & let live.
Our factory fill from Japan is 75w85 GL5, lots ppl there do factory fill + NNL690G. There is no need be bitter...

[rice_classic]

1: Our factory fill from Japan is GL3, not GL5 and if you pay attention in class you will know that 75w-85 is thinner than a 75w-90.

2: You said you lived in Vegas and even in your PM you said you do "small track events". Well, neither of those is racing. Neither of those environments will heat your transmission oil up to 300F for extended periods of time and even after the "small track event" your trans fluid will spend the rest of it's life functioning between 40F and 140F. Also the 86 isn't like a FWD car where the Diff sits in the same oil as the gear shafts, adding to the heat..nope, it's just two shafts, their gears, synchros and bearings. Since you don't have to worry about long periods of extensive heat, you don't need a thicker solution.

3: Thicker isn't better. Just like was already posted but you aren't understanding that the lubrication needs of your transmission addresses 4 things: Synchros, gears, seals and bearings. You need film-strength and additives for the gear teeth contact, material compatibility for the seals/gaskets, thermal stability for longevity of the fluid, and appropriate viscosity for bearing lubrication because the bearing lubrication depends greatly on flow. Example: Starve those needle-bearing collars from lubrication because you're oil is too thick and wear increases. This type of wear doesn't require the vehicle to be driven hard either.
http://www.esotericperformance.com/blog/1/

What may also happen at some point as well is that the thicker oil will reduce the synchro's ability to engage the gear at very high rpms while rapidly shifting, reducing the effectiveness of the synchro to do its job.

4: Sulfur. It is well established that sulfur is not friendly with bronze. Most GL5 Gear oils contain sulfur. Only a select few do not. Sulfur deteriorates bronze and according to Eneos' own website, your gear oil contains sulfur.

5: With all this being said, there are some, but very few, GL5 oils that don't have sulfur, aren't too thick and won't cause any ill-effects outside maybe a slight reduction in MPGs, however I don't think Eneos Gear oil is one of them.

6: This, right here is why I stated earlier...

It's typically a general statement and why? Because most normal folks don't have the intelligence, patience or aptitude to do the research so it just easier to say.. "Run Gear oil in your differential, run Transmission fluid in your transmission."

There you go, enjoy your Gear Oil. Please don't PM me.