supra2nv's GT86 (inspired by 14R TRD Griffon, and a lil bit of NSX)

[Anaxilus]

Big brake + big wheels = less fun, agile, nimble on the street. More high speed grip and braking for track but less zippy for around town.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Big brake + big wheels = less fun, agile, nimble on the street. More high speed grip and braking for track but less zippy for around town.

I'm not so sure. If you assume greater weight, yes, but he's running light forged wheels and the TRD BBK may well weigh less than the chunky cast OEM's. OTOH, the tires might be heavier but maybe not. When I was shopping for 225/45-17 performance rubber there was about a 6 lb. difference between the top rated brands with one about the same as the OEM Michelins.

In general I agree, but he has anything but a typical build going on.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by torqdork

I'm not so sure. If you assume greater weight, yes, but he's running light forged wheels and the TRD BBK may well weigh less than the chunky cast OEM's. OTOH, the tires might be heavier but maybe not. When I was shopping for 225/45-17 performance rubber there was about a 6 lb. difference between the top rated brands with one about the same as the OEM Michelins.

In general I agree, but he has anything but a typical build going on.

To know for sure, you have to look at the polar weight. While the TRD thing is cool, they aren't the most optimized parts for saving weight, TRD never is. Bigger/ wider tires also have more friction as well as weight where you don't want it and I find that makes a car feel more sluggish. Same thing for BBK. You can drop weight on the caliper and rotor hat, but a bigger OD puts weight further out where OE had no weight at all. This is why the Essex Sprint kit is so popular versus the Endurance.

In short, a 20lb 16" wheel will feel snappier than a 19" 19lb wheel. static weight wrt rotational mass means very little w/o consideration of overall dimensions and dynamic weight.

[supra2nv]

Originally Posted by torqdork

I'm not so sure. If you assume greater weight, yes, but he's running light forged wheels and the TRD BBK may well weigh less than the chunky cast OEM's. OTOH, the tires might be heavier but maybe not. When I was shopping for 225/45-17 performance rubber there was about a 6 lb. difference between the top rated brands with one about the same as the OEM Michelins.

In general I agree, but he has anything but a typical build going on.

Yeah bro my car is definitely lighter

[supra2nv]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

Elaborate? My guess is you baby the TRD, hence why the Raven is more fun *shrugs*

Side note: Wish I could have another BRZ/FR-S just to mod

Haha I don't baby my cars. I don't abuse them either...I use them for their intended purpose

Trd grips, is loud, stock is driftyyy and funnnnnnn

[supra2nv]

Switchback

[Anaxilus]

Good to hear!

[supra2nv]

I swear they must be related

[supra2nv]

Conquest TSI

[supra2nv]

I love these things

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

In short, a 20lb 16" wheel will feel snappier than a 19" 19lb wheel. static weight wrt rotational mass means very little w/o consideration of overall dimensions and dynamic weight.

It depends on the wheel design and where the weight is located. The smaller wheel might have more mass at the rim while the larger wheel may have more at the hub giving the larger wheel an acceleration advantage.

Similar consideration for the TRD BBK material aluminum vs. steel, one piece vs. two and where that weight is located.

Then alignment plays a part. Factory spec front toe-in can be easily changed to toe-out that will improve steering response.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by torqdork

It depends on the wheel design and where the weight is located. The smaller wheel might have more mass at the rim while the larger wheel may have more at the hub giving the larger wheel an acceleration advantage.

Similar consideration for the TRD BBK material aluminum vs. steel, one piece vs. two and where that weight is located.

Then alignment plays a part. Factory spec front toe-in can be easily changed to toe-out that will improve steering response.

True but unlikely, which is why I picked a 16" versus 19" wheel. A 3" larger wheel will pretty much always carry more polar mass, don't really see how that's not possible if the weight difference is only a pound unless you think his TRD rims are only 4-5" wide.

A BBK will always have more polar moment as the rotor is by definition 'bigger' and both rotors are steel regardless. If you want an exception then carbon ceramic is what you want for a rotor.

Shifting weight outward on a larger lever never improves response. Also, that same alignment technique can be applied to a more agile setup as well, it is not limited to only larger rims and brakes. You get even more response benefit not going bigger.

Normal physics doesn't allow for us to have our cake and eat it too. We have to make choices. Trade-offs are inescapable w/o a sub-space field.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

True but unlikely, which is why I picked a 16" versus 19" wheel. A 3" larger wheel will pretty much always carry more polar mass, don't really see how that's not possible if the weight difference is only a pound unless you think his TRD rims are only 4-5" wide.

A BBK will always have more polar moment as the rotor is by definition 'bigger' and both rotors are steel regardless. If you want an exception then carbon ceramic is what you want for a rotor.

Shifting weight outward on a larger lever never improves response. Also, that same alignment technique can be applied to a more agile setup as well, it is not limited to only larger rims and brakes. You get even more response benefit not going bigger.

Normal physics doesn't allow for us to have our cake and eat it too. We have to make choices. Trade-offs are inescapable w/o a sub-space field.

Not necessarily. It depends on mass distribution relative to axle centerline. That's where design comes into play and why high-end wheels are often two or three pieces of different materials like BBS.

Also, everything I've read indicates TRD BBK calipers (OK, Brembo by another name) are aluminum, an enormous weight savings over OEM steel.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/Racing/...Pages/Kit.aspx

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Not necessarily. It depends on mass distribution relative to axle centerline. That's where design comes into play and why high-end wheels are often two or three pieces of different materials like BBS.

Also, everything I've read indicates TRD BBK rotors (OK, Brembo by another name) are aluminum, an enormous weight savings over OEM steel and from the all important outer circumference of rotating mass.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/Racing/...Pages/Kit.aspx

Ok, we are talking typical comparisons. Nobody here is debating whether to put a 16x11 wheel on or a 19x4. It's pretty much 16, 17x7 to 19x10. I don't want to waste time debating esoteric and unrealistic extreme examples (outliers) that are irrelevant to the original question of why he enjoys the Raven compared to the TRD version.

You mean the ones w/ the bolts on the rim for swapping out different sizes? 2 and 3 piece wheels are pretty universally heavier than comparable single forgings. What BBS wheels are you referring to? I haven't seen a multi-piece wheel in F1 in since before most of us were born?

Where do you see the rotors are aluminum in your link? I don't see it, nor have I ever felt or seen one. Only the hat and calipers are. The only thing I can pull up on aluminum rotors is a prototype alloy version developed in 2012.

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-te...d-200000-miles

No, just no, the rotors are iron based. This is why they have a zinc coating, to prevent rust from forming. If they were aluminum, they wouldn't be. Plus they are floating because the aluminum hat and iron rotors expand at different rates. If the rotors were aluminum like the hat, they would make a single forged rotor w/ integral hat to save weight like a F1 wheel from Enkei or Volk. This does not exist or at least is not purchasable by the average consumer.