D4S Delete? I'm dead serious.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Is that last bit a reason to avoid port-injection only?

No, engine blew up when Wastegate line melted, had nothing to do with fuel.

[Acree]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

You'll also loose HP. Without the DI, this engine was pretty pathetic from what I've heard. Toyota's DI is the only reason why the car made it to 200 crank hp

This is partially true. The problem is suby could only get the engine to make 200hp without the economy and emissions, or make 160hp with the required emissions targets.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by King Tut

It wasn't Ptuning, it was JDL. They were running 1000cc port injectors and an AEM EMS. Not sure if the car is back up and running after blowing the motor:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29975

I believe they didn't use the direct injectors purely because the AEM couldn't control them. Not because it made more power etc without them.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

I believe they didn't use the direct injectors purely because the AEM couldn't control them. Not because it made more power etc without them.

That is correct. The DI system is an advantage, and there is no way I would eliminate that advantage.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Any examples of this? I'm part of M3 forums and came from an E46 M3. I've never heard of anyone ditching the VANOS. I'm actually interested. I love learning new things! :happy0180:

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...kit-p1344.aspx

VAC Motorsports sells the kit. Many high-HP, big-turbo S54 guys run the kit. Some NA folks as well. Deleting the VANOS system does nothing to hurt top end power, it only reduces low-end torque. It is very different than Honda's VTECH, as it is all about maximizing low-end torque by advancing the cams at low RPMs. By the time revs get to the top-end, the cams have retarded back to 0º.

When your goal is big (reliable) power, things like VANOS and DI are not worth the tuning hassle. Many 4 cylinders have come before the FA20 without DI, and many much more efficient (Honda F20C comes to mind). The FA20's DI is much more about fuel economy than it is about making that extra bit of power...

[Crossover Auto]

There's no reason to remove the DI part of the D4S. It improves the performance over traditional port injection only setups.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by Entropy

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...kit-p1344.aspx

VAC Motorsports sells the kit. Many high-HP, big-turbo S54 guys run the kit. Some NA folks as well. Deleting the VANOS system does nothing to hurt top end power, it only reduces low-end torque. It is very different than Honda's VTECH, as it is all about maximizing low-end torque by advancing the cams at low RPMs. By the time revs get to the top-end, the cams have retarded back to 0º.

When your goal is big (reliable) power, things like VANOS and DI are not worth the tuning hassle. Many 4 cylinders have come before the FA20 without DI, and many much more efficient (Honda F20C comes to mind). The FA20's DI is much more about fuel economy than it is about making that extra bit of power...

The D4S is not there for economy. The D4S is there to make as much power as they could with a given emissions target. Without the D4S there would be less power for the same emissions output. When you forget about emissions you make more power again which is why a tune from someone like FA20Club or Visconti is so effective.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by TeamZleep

Well, that's a pile of suck. I just hate the living worry about the DI failing... But I'm still enjoying the car to it's fullest... If the engine dies, and the dealer won't cover it, I'll look into my options then.

Why would you worry about DI failing.. ? DI has been around a long time..
Its a proven technology and it allows more power while providing good mileage..

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Mainly, though, I think it's ditched because it's hard to deal with and control. That's the same reason some tuners early on her just going port. It made the job easier, especially with other tuning solutions than the standard two.

Yep.

For comparison, I'd submit there's no 'family' out there with more aftermarket tuning expertise than GM LSx engines. GM's been doing cam-phased VVT for pretty close to a decade, and tuners are just starting to embrace it within the last year or so.

And they're saying 'damn, this works'!

So give it time.

[ft_sjo]

VVT doesn't give you more power than non VVT... it just gives you better non-WOT performance!

[Taber]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Any examples of this? I'm part of M3 forums and came from an E46 M3. I've never heard of anyone ditching the VANOS. I'm actually interested. I love learning new things! :happy0180:

Its very common on higher output M3's. There are a number of kits out there for it, although I believe the VAC Motorsports kit is probably the most "popular". Its not just as simple as deleting VANOS though, cam timing needs to be dialed in, and standalone engine management overnight from Japan is recommended.

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

VVT doesn't give you more power than non VVT... it just gives you better non-WOT performance!

That depends upon the yardstick, doesn't it?

If the non-VVT setup is designed for maximum power, you're right. But I think that's rarely the case, as few manufacturers would sell an engine set up with the proper overlap for peak high-RPM power; it wouldn't idle well and wouldn't be very tractable at low RPM.

VVT lets you make fewer compromises; you can have peak power AND driveability.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

VVT doesn't give you more power than non VVT... it just gives you better non-WOT performance!

One of the few occasions I say yep, you are right.

[Acree]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

VVT doesn't give you more power than non VVT... it just gives you better non-WOT performance!

Not true in my opinion. Does it give more power at peak hp? No. Does it provide more torque and therefore more hp across the lower rpm band? Absolutely. This is during WOT and non-WOT.