The Marginal FR-S Final Review | Part 3

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

This car is not slow. Its just the last decade cars have gotten over powered, that will change. The '86 is as fast as a Porsche 944S, plenty fast for any public road. The problem is the torque dip so to get the power out of it you must drive it in its power band and that's risky at the moment.

I never said it was slow.. But it's slower than the LS3 corvette I was driving for 5 years before I got the FRS. A lot slower actually.. But for everyday use, and being able to rev it out and enjoy rowing thru the gears.. It's pleasantly quick and more fun driving this car..

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Sprintex/Bullet etc, all have IC versions. There has to be a reason they only sell it that way. My guess there is data, but the fact you have to go digging for it or when you ask the heads of Innovate for it and they can't provide it... Red flag.

I agree.. I'm sure they don't want too many facts getting out about their setup.
But post data should be helpful. If someone is logging data, EGTs , timing pulls and boost levels should tell a good part of the story.

[P@ul]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I have no idea why this has never happened. The internet is littered with rumors of b-segment RWD cars like a mini MX5 and similar rumors for a smaller S2000 replacement. This is why the FR-S has always kind of left me wondering where the real players are in this game.

Because that will be the test of how good this car is or isn't.

$15k buys you a yaris. Hell, Scion doesn't even sell anything that cheap anymore. Profit margins are horrible on cars, and get increasingly worse as the car gets cheaper. The amount of competition these days is further eroding that margin. The closest anyone is going to get is a a rwd Kei car. That or you're going to have to go to the developing world and buy a car not made to our crash standards.

Originally Posted by Mikem53

A very capable and renowned aftermarket tuner and FI expert who did some work for me some years back, Corky Bell of BEI told me,</p>
<p>&quot;If you want a fast car, buy a fast car&quot;. </p>
<p>These words coming from a guy who is in the business of designing and selling aftermarket turbo and SC systems really hit home.. </p>
<p>I eventually followed his advice and spent more time driving and enjoying the sport rather than fixing broken components..</p>
<p>Then I got old and am enjoying something slower .... This car.. And with no urge to mod it..

Amen. I used to think I was going to drive some shit hot car with a ton of parts. Then I found out I am not the tinkering type. As much as I still enjoy working on cars, I like working on other people's cars and never my own. I now understand why people who have the financial means drop the money to buy a fast car out of the box. They would rather be getting seat time than fixing shit.

After seeing how the sausage gets made at a car company, I'm pretty leary of the "engineering" that goes into aftermarket parts. These days, I can barely get motivated to change my oil... Hahaha!

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Sprintex/Bullet etc, all have IC versions. There has to be a reason they only sell it that way. My guess there is data, but the fact you have to go digging for it or when you ask the heads of Innovate for it and they can't provide it... Red flag.

Dezoris.. One more comment about your red flag comment.. Sometimes having lower boost with no IC is better than an inefficient setup with IC running more boost. As the blower will have to make more psi to overcome the losses associated with lots of plumbing and back pressure from inefficient IC cores. Also adds to lag time to pressurize a longer more complex intake path.
So it all depends on the setup and components used.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Dezoris.. One more comment about your red flag comment.. Sometimes having lower boost with no IC is better than an inefficient setup with IC running more boost. As the blower will have to make more psi to overcome the losses associated with lots of plumbing and back pressure from inefficient IC cores. Also adds to lag time to pressurize a longer more complex intake path.
So it all depends on the setup and components used.

This is very true and smart. For the street, an intercooler isn't going to help much for this blower, its a constriction. The issue Dezoris has with innovate is a technical one so read carefully: to properly tune the innovate you need a post blower intake manifold sensor. Nameless has proposed one, once in the hands of the public/tuners the innovate will be an ideal upgrade. Revisit in a year.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Dezoris.. One more comment about your red flag comment.. Sometimes having lower boost with no IC is better than an inefficient setup with IC running more boost. As the blower will have to make more psi to overcome the losses associated with lots of plumbing and back pressure from inefficient IC cores. Also adds to lag time to pressurize a longer more complex intake path.
So it all depends on the setup and components used.

You bring up good points, and is logical and this is the basis they are selling the kit on. But... I like data, not having a way to accurately measure IAT is a deal breaker regardless of boost, compressor RPM, IC etc.

[brillo]

I wasn't aware of the IAT issue with the innovate kit. Why can't the stock sensor simply be relocated?

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by brillo

I wasn't aware of the IAT issue with the innovate kit. Why can't the stock sensor simply be relocated?

It was never designed to include it. Adam from Innovate said you would have to cut/modify the kit to mount it there. Nameless has their adapter coming out soon, don't know how or what is involved with that.