Lowering Springs Questions

[Chase86]

So I really like all the good things I'm hearing about the Swift lowering springs and would like to pick up a set however before I do I have a couple questions regarding what else I'll need.

This will be my first time ever messing with a suspension and I love the way it handles now and don't want to mess it up. I'm totally new at this so a lot of the parts, their purpose and the terms I'm still learning. Its my DD and I'll probably never take it to a track, at least not for the foreseeable future.

My goal is to lower the right height for cosmetic purposes but keep the handling and tail happy nature of the FR-S if not slightly improve upon it on the slimmest budget possible. I plan on keeping the stock wheels (I like them) and wont replace the tires until they need it, even then I'm not convinced I want to go with something stickier.

From my hours of reading these forums I've decided on Swift springs but hear about other things people are doing or have done to go along with that i.e. spacers, bushings, LCA's, crash bolts, etc.

So finally my question... Understanding my usage and goals do I need to install/purchase anything else along with the springs? If I installed just springs and nothing else what would the negatives be? What extras are an absolute must?

I appreciate your input and opinions and for helping a brother out

[Racecomp Engineering]

IMO the factory camber bolts are a must at the very least. They're also less than 10 bucks so you'd be crazy not to.

- Andy

[Chase86]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

IMO the factory camber bolts are a must at the very least. They're also less than 10 bucks so you'd be crazy not to.

- Andy

Thanks Andy. Those are just for the front right? Do I need to do anything for the back?

[Racecomp Engineering]

The factory bolts are just for the front.

For the rear with springs that have a mild/medium drop you don't need necessarily anything. Swifts and our RCE Yellow springs for example.

I am pretty anal about alignment so I would probably do it especially if you track or auto-x the car, but you will be fine without them for a regular daily driver.

[Chase86]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I am pretty anal about alignment so I would probably do it especially if you track or auto-x the car, but you will be fine without them for a regular daily driver.

Is that because you get too much or too little camber in the front? What would your suggestion be to set it at and should I let the alignment shop set the camber?

[ayau]

I think it's important to understand how the car's camber changes when you lower the car's ride height.

With this car's suspension design, when you lower the ride height, the front wheels will have a relatively static camber, but the rear will increase in camber. The lower the ride height, the more negative camber in the rear.

Your factory camber looks something like this.
Front: 0
Rear: -1.2

When you lower the ride height ONLY, for example, 0.5'', your alignment will look something like this.
Front: 0
Rear: -1.8

Replacing the front OEM bolts with the OEM "crash bolts" will allow you to set the front camber to something around -1.4. I was able to get -1.5 and -1.7. Depends on how your mechanic tightens the bolt. My mechanic used the weight of the vehicle to max out the front camber.

With more negative front camber, your car will be able to use more of the tire's contact patch during cornering. This is because all tires will roll over during cornering forces and reduce the size of the tire's contact patch. Generally, aggressive summer street tires will have a stiffer sidewall compared to regular performance tires to reduce the roll.

When you lower your car's height, you'll want to fix the front and rear toe alignment. You're paying for an alignment anyway. You might as well get a free performance upgrade with the $10 crash bolts.

[Chase86]

Originally Posted by ayau

When you lower your car's height, you'll want to fix the front and rear toe alignment. You're paying for an alignment. You might as well get a free performance upgrade with the $10 crash bolts.

I'm sold on the crash bolts I'm just not clear on the alignment. Will the alignment shop adjust the camber if I have the crash bolts installed?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Chase86

I'm sold on the crash bolts I'm just not clear on the alignment. Will the alignment shop adjust the camber if I have the crash bolts installed?

Nothing to really adjust as you want the maximum amount of camber you can get anyway (which isn't a lot). You can't really dial in the exact amount of camber on both sides since you don't get "knobs", but both sides should be pretty close if you max it out.

I think the video below will help you understand this a little better.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkq9dHiqWBY"]Scion FR-S BRZ Camber Crash Bolt Install DIY - YouTube[/ame]

[Chase86]

Ok. I think its coming together for me...

So the crash bolts wont give me "too much" camber. They'll give me some which will increase grip in cornering. And then if for some reason I wanted more like for the track I'd have to go a different route (plates, LCAs), right?

But since that probably won't happen the bolts, like Andy said, are a cheap performance upgrade.

[Pablitomarrero]

wow i fanally understand camber bolts lol...thank you @ayau

But... that looks like it can slip... I mean, the thicker bolt wont permit the wheel from changing camber but it seems to me that the extra camber with the "crash bolt" is only being held in place by the 114 pounds you torqued into the crash bolt... Wont that just eventually shift with normal driving?

[barabia]

Ok So Im pretty much in the same boat here. Im lowering my car (Eibach sportlines) as well and have had the exact same questions. It's becoming clearer now thanks to you guy but now I have one more question: what about the rear? I ask because I DO intented on doing HPDEs and dont want to ruin the Michelin Pilot Super Sports I just had put on (well I might ruin them on the track but I want to run the right camber anyway). Where do I get rear camber bolts and what angle should I be running?

[garfull]

I just installed the swifts and did the alignment. I didn't install any crash bolts in the front because my wheels would end up hitting the shock. My numbers ended up like this.

Front R/L camber
-.6/-.5

Rear R/L camber
-2.6/-2.7

I need more front camber but I'll live with it since I don't want to swap out the wheels. Perhaps I'll put in my crash bolts and a 3mm spacer and hope I clear. The rear I need to get a LCA.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Chase86

Ok. I think its coming together for me...

So the crash bolts wont give me "too much" camber. They'll give me some which will increase grip in cornering. And then if for some reason I wanted more like for the track I'd have to go a different route (plates, LCAs), right?

But since that probably won't happen the bolts, like Andy said, are a cheap performance upgrade.

There are a couple options, but they're not as cheap as a set of $10 bolts.

Front camber options:
- camber plates
- slotting the bolt holes bigger
- "crash bolts"

Rear camber options:
- Whiteline rear control arm bushings
- Adjustable lower control arm

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Pablitomarrero

wow i fanally understand camber bolts lol...thank you @ayau

But... that looks like it can slip... I mean, the thicker bolt wont permit the wheel from changing camber but it seems to me that the extra camber with the "crash bolt" is only being held in place by the 114 pounds you torqued into the crash bolt... Wont that just eventually shift with normal driving?

The OEM crash bolts are recommended by the Subaru/Toyota service manual to adjust front camber.

The reason why they're called "crash bolts" is because they're used to fix camber alignment when you get into an accident.

If your rear camber is way out of factory spec, then the service manual recommends you adjust the rear subframe bolts and/or replace the rear lower control arm.

114 ft-lbs is a lot considering there are 2 bolts per side, and these are massive 19mm bolts. I haven't read anyone's bolts really slipping yet. When torqued to the proper specs, the friction/clamping of the nut is what keeps the bolt from slipping. The shaft of the bolt doesn't take any of burden. Same concept applies to lug nuts/wheel studs.