Toyota 86 to get power boost with 2015 refresh

[Figo]

If this is true, the new 2.5 FR-S is gonna make me kinda upset cuz that will make my 2.0 FR-S cheap.

[asnoir]

Keiichi Tsuschya says when the 86 was in developpement that a 2.5 l engine should be the best option for the new 86. But toyota chose the 2.0 l engine. I think it's for the gas mileage.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...he-Drift-King/
Where does the Toyota GT86 fit into the drifting story?

It’s a similar situation today, the GT86 entering a market dominated by hot hatches. It’s perhaps not to everyone’s taste, but the electric steering offers weight and real feedback through the small wheel, the engine’s a little dull, the gearbox a little notchy, but you’ll forget all that when rushing to the redline or blipping downchanges to stay in the powerband. And when the competition is heavier and grippier and drives the front wheels, the hope is that an intuitive, perfectly balanced coupe on 17-inch tyres pinched off a Prius can offer the accessible thrills so hard to otherwise find.
I only worry it’s not powerful enough, or that those anorexic tyres are still too grippy. ‘The thing I rather strongly suggested was a 2.5-litre naturally aspirated engine, or a turbo,’ says Tsuchiya. But, just like the AE86, the basic ingredients are there, and it’ll be left to aftermarket tuners and enthusiastic fans to tweak the car to their own preferences.
Or you need the skill of the Drift King, who uses every inch of our closed road to make the GT86 dance, calling out to me where he shift-locks from third to second gear to lock the rear wheels (see panel on left for an explanation), where he clutch-kicks to put the 2.0-litre engine back in its high-rev powerband, all the time moving deftly, never once applying too much lock or too much throttle.

Now a days the 2.2 l engine FA20 exist. HKS had an FA20 engine with new bore and stroke.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/...ing-performer/
"You won’t find any wild engine swaps under the stock aluminum hood because HKS have preferred to apply their know-how on the base FA20 flat four motor. Having received a couple of pre-production cars even before the 86 went on sale early last year allowed them to start work on the engine before most of their competitors. Knowing that forced induction would be the only way to get the 200hp lump to develop decent power, they worked on a bottom end capable of taking the abuse of serious boost levels. The 2.2L stroker kit that the FA now runs is made up of slightly oversized 87 mm forged aluminum pistons, H-section connecting rods and a counterbalanced crankshaft with an increased (89 mm) stroke."

[chas3wba0]

Adding displacement/a turbo would lower the fuel efficiency as well, no? As much as I'd like a bit more power in this car, I'm using it for a daily commuter as well so good gas mileage is kind of important :/

[Bristecom]

I really hope they offer a 2.5 liter boxer next year! As I've said before, that would address my biggest complaint with this car - the lack of mid-range torque - and the drawbacks would be minimal. Do it Toyota/Subaru!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by mit_peid

Thanks I knew that but have been out of school too long to remember how to do the math.

Assuming it stays N/A but bumped to ~2.5L and equal bore & stroke ... speculation on what this will be called:

GT86 --> GT92 ?
FR-S --> FR-S TRD ?
BRZ --> BRZ STI ?

The North American WRX went from 2.0L to 2.5L without a name change, whilst we only ever had the 2.5L STI in North America. That'd lead me to believe that a displacement change won't lead to a model designation change.

[OrangeJuleas]

Isn't 3 years too short for an engine refresh? How many sub-30k vehicles lose their base engine in such a short period of time? My guess is that there will be mild updates to the system, gradually increasing HP/TQ bits and pieces at a time. Toyota/Subaru put enough research into these cars that they should last at least 3 years without seeming outdated, IMHO.

[Mim]

A few posts were made around the hope of possible weight reduction in future updates. I honestly don't see that happening as it takes more money to reduce weight.

Have a look at the still born Audi e-Tron R8 as an example. The team of highly motivated and gifted Audi engineers pulled together 10 production ready prototypes at an estimate value of 1 million euro a pop, but once the bean counters did the math there was no way they could realistically make any business case out of bringing the car to sale. Those cars used insanely expensive materials to help counteract the weight of it's large bank of batteries. Credit due though as they got the total weight within 45 odd kg or a regular R8.

I appreciate that as being an extreme example, but the basic principle holds true. Would the average customer want to pay an additional $5,000 to for a 50 or 100kg lighter car? I'm sure one of Tada-san's mandates to the engineering team was to make the car as light as economically feasible for production.

The only way I see weight reduction happening is through economies of scale ie when you have a model that you can move at a high enough volume that the expense of lighter materials can be spread across the total production.

Coming back to the engine power topic and what direction they might go. Who is not to say that Toyota won't simply go to a two engine line up? The current engine is brand new so I just don't see it being scrapped so soon.

The ideal way forward would be to keep the current FA20 as is (with incremental changes) and then introduce a new second tier option for the enthusiast's out there and release a standard performance model eg Sti/TRD and still leave enough scope for the moding market.

Given the popularity of the twins it would make sense to grow a product family to cater to all the usual segments ie a base / performance model and coupe / convertible like so many other brands already do.

[Gaiakai]

If they do decide to offer multiple engine options, I hope it doesn't become a Toyota/Subaru only thing - resulting in us Scion guys in NA/Canada getting screwed over again because of the damn monospec bullshit. Not that I'd have a problem switching over to Subaru. But I really like this front end....

[jflogerzi]

I don't care what they do. I have my car and will upgrade it to fit my tastes. for people who want a bit more power and stay NA should get a full exhaust plus a tune. Add a header with e85 and bam close to your extra 50 hp now. Or add the Innovate SC Kit. The perfect blend of power, TQ, and NA feel of the original car.

[Kilika]

True but there is no replacement for displacement. Do the same mods on a bigger engine and you will get even more power, but of course with diminishing returns. And some people like to keep things stock for whatever reason.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by Wise

I really wish they'd just hurry up and announce what they're going to do so I can know if I have to sell my car or keep it. I want to mod my car but I'm holding off because I'm afraid the moment I do they'll just announce the turbo.

I'm not gonna keep it if there's a 2.5 or a turbocharged version out there.

Same boat, man

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

Isn't 3 years too short for an engine refresh? How many sub-30k vehicles lose their base engine in such a short period of time? My guess is that there will be mild updates to the system, gradually increasing HP/TQ bits and pieces at a time. Toyota/Subaru put enough research into these cars that they should last at least 3 years without seeming outdated, IMHO.

No, it's not too short for this car considering the overwhelming demand for more power. They're doing what's smart for them (financially).

And I don't mean current owners are demanding more power because most aren't. It's the much larger amount of people who didn't buy the car based on the power of the engine alone.

[Z-PDX]

Interesting. Toyota can't be too happy about all this leaking.

If rumors of a 2.5 in 2015 prove to have legs, it will kill 2014 sales.

BTW, if anyone from Toyota product planning is reading, another half liter and 50hp is worth 2-3k to me at retail. More if its part of a nice sport package with HIDs.

[Sport-Tech]

^ What he said.