Finally test drove an FR-S today... Evo IX owner

[Jose_Timberlake]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Seeing how the car has been out for a while, another test drive thread probably isn't anything crazy, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. The background info is that I have test driven a lot of cars (though not in the last couple of years) and have owned an Evo IX since I bought it brand new in February 2007, and before that I also had another Evo, then a variety of different vehicles. I'm not an Evo fanboy, but I'm a big fan of the platform and had test driven a lot of other cars before deciding on it. However, the current Evo X is also a great driver's car, but it's not as "raw" as any of the prior Evos and feels a tad watered down when it comes to what you do with the steering wheel. But if you drove one but had never driven an Evo VIII or IX, then there wouldn't be anything to dislike about the test drive.

Anyway, I've always been curious about the FR-S/BRZ (but had just never had the chance to test drive one until today) after reading some articles that compared it to my car. Edmunds/Inside Line said the following in two separate articles:


http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...dont-know.html

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/brz/2013/road-test1.html

Both of those statements caught my attention, which I think was a huge compliment. There were times when I was thinking of getting something new, but I usually left test drives feeling a bit disappointed. A lot of cars were just as quick, but I REALLY love to use the steering wheel, and none of the cars I drove were as communicative. Those two quotes said that the FR-S was as precise as an Evo IX, and that in the given $50,000-and-under price range, the BRZ is probably the most involving car, with the current Evo X MAYBE offering something similar. Basically it confirms that the FR-S and BRZ are pretty awesome (and for the sake of this discussion, we'll go ahead and assume that they are identical behind the wheel) but also, indirectly, that the IX is better than the X (as it draws a comparison between the FR-S and Evo IX but says that the Evo X MIGHT be as involving as the BRZ).

So, here we go. I found an FR-S Series 10 at my local dealership (and it took forever to find the one with a manual) and got a chance to take it for a spin earlier today. The inside is much, much better than the standard interior of the FR-S (and BRZ Premium), but I won't dwell on that too much, especially since even the standard interior with the cheapo interior knobs is a step up from the Evo IX interior (though I still like my seats and steering wheel better). It was odd, but I felt it drove interestingly a lot like my Evo IX, as far as what happens when you use the steering wheel. The response was very similar (which is a good thing), except the nose obviously felt lighter and a tad more willing to turn. It's not to say that the Evo's nose won't turn, because that's obviously not the case with a car that slaloms at ~70 mph and usually pulls 0.95 g on the skidpad, but obviously the various LSDs have to kick in and work their magic, and you know it's going on, whereas the FR-S felt a lot more natural, which is pretty understandable.

Power-wise, it wasn't anything crazy, but it was MORE than enough for a very entertaining daily driver. Coming from a car that has 286 hp and 289 lb-ft stock, the FR-S was obviously not quite the same, but "slow" was NEVER a word that crossed my mind. The low- to mid-range delivery is very adequate (and much punchier than any non-K24 Honda VTEC four-cylinder in that same rev range), and the top end felt pretty nice. It was something that was enjoyable and could be easily exploited on a daily basis. My car is really fun, but by the time I have a big smile, I'm probably doing something well above the posted speed limit. However, I'm a practical driver who knows how to drive really well. I have fun when I want, but if I'm going to work or something, I will drive the car like it's my girlfriend's Corolla, as I'm not the type of person who feels the need to redline on the way to buy food. (If the route involved some nice corners, that's a different story.) The guys who say that the FR-S is slow are probably the idiots you see gunning it at every red light or flying past traffic on the freeway doing 90+ mph. You know, the ones who complain about how police are against them and/or their car. The ones who buy thousands of dollars' worth of mods but have never pushed their car to its limits when it was still stock and likely don't participate in any driving events.

BEFORE I test drove one, I already knew that if I were deprived of my Evo somehow (meaning it was somehow totaled), I was leaning toward getting an FR-S/BRZ over getting the current Evo X (or anything else on the market in a comparable price range, i.e. WRX/STI, 370Z, Genesis Coupe)... I'm not a big fan of buying used, particularly with sporty, fun cars, and likely wouldn't want to buy a used Evo IX (which I'd get as a replacement in the same hypothetical circumstance, if they were still made). Today's test drive confirmed that I was correct. With the same or similar budget, I would only get an FR-S or BRZ as a replacement car (though that would not happen if I still have my Evo IX -- it would only be a purchase alongside it) over everything else, unless I just got some insane promotion at work and was in a position to comfortably have two cars. (However, a much higher budget might allow me to consider something more high-end since they would be more feasible than now, but I'd still be hard-pressed to consider anything else unless it were an M3 or a Boxster/Cayman, both of which are already closer to being triple the price.)

Good job, Toyota/Subaru.

Great write-up sir! And my hats off to you for actually keeping an open mind when you got behind the wheel, especially coming from the likes of an Evo with oodles of power!

[marky]

Now you know what we feel.. there's nothing like driving a well balance car.. This is a drivers car... Become one with the car...

[SS4goku]

Evo X owner here and I completely agree with your review! I was actually blown away by the "feel" the first time I drove an FRS.

[tacoss23]

I'm glad to hear an Evo owner not calling this car "slow". It encourages me after all the "slow" comments I hear. (I'm getting a '14 BRZ).

I come from driving almost strictly german cars all my life, so when I test drove this car it felt fun, different, raw, however......the power part for me felt...I don't know, not slow, but lets just say....I thought I was going faster.

At any point it felt inadequate, but every time I looked at the speedometer few seconds after a curve, I was like "oh...still only 54 mph, hmm..."

So I'm still scared about the paper number "6.5 sec" on the reviews, and the comments most people post. But if an Evo owner (I drove one for an entire summer 2 years ago) thinks the power is adequate, then I feel more comfortable with my upcoming purchase.

[rapidcars]

Originally Posted by tacoss23

I'm glad to hear an Evo owner not calling this car "slow". It encourages me after all the "slow" comments I hear. (I'm getting a '14 BRZ).

I come from driving almost strictly german cars all my life, so when I test drove this car it felt fun, different, raw, however......the power part for me felt...I don't know, not slow, but lets just say....I thought I was going faster.

At any point it felt inadequate, but every time I looked at the speedometer few seconds after a curve, I was like "oh...still only 54 mph, hmm..."

So I'm still scared about the paper number "6.5 sec" on the reviews, and the comments most people post. But if an Evo owner (I drove one for an entire summer 2 years ago) thinks the power is adequate, then I feel more comfortable with my upcoming purchase.

The whole slow thing is way overblown. People make comments about losing drag races to minivans which is just plain stupid. I would love a bit more power (who wouldn't) but the car is plenty fast for driving enthusiastically.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by rapidcars

The whole slow thing is way overblown. People make comments about losing drag races to minivans which is just plain stupid. I would love a bit more power (who wouldn't) but the car is plenty fast for driving enthusiastically.

Agreed about the slow thing being overblown. My last fun car was a 2000 Celica GT-S. The best I can say is that the power felt "adequate" for the platform, but left room for improvement. In a straight line, the car would lose to Accords, but it was set up for corner carving and was a blast to drive among some of the curvier roads around Atlanta. A fun car doesn't have to decimate everything in a straight line.

That being said, I'm starting to feel like Wayne at the beginning of Wayne's World when he's fawning over the guitar with how often I go to random Scion dealerships and test drive the FR-S.

[Bristecom]

The Evo IX has the best seating position/controls I have ever felt. The steering wheel, seats, shifter and pedals are all pretty much ideal for me. And it also has more feedback than the FR-S. However, the Evo is a larger sedan so you can definitely feel that extra length and higher center of gravity. My Eclipse GSX (which is based off the old Evo platform) is more compact than the Evo's for less body roll but it's not as refined.

To me, the Evo's almost have too much power so I prefer the tiny turbo in the Eclipse GSX for minimal lag. The FR-S picks up much better in the low end but I was pretty disappointed the last time I drove it. I tried accelerating onto the highway and it felt like it was barely moving over 3k. Now, it may just be a matter of me finding how to shift around that torque dip but it really did bug me that time. With the Evo and Eclipse, the torque dip is down low (below 2.5-3k) but it packs a punch from there on up. But with the FR-S it seems I will have to learn to either keep it below 3k or downshift to over 5k. So yeah, I'll give it another thorough test drive in a few months when the 2014's are out to see if that's something I can deal with.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by theTRDshop

Evo X owner here and I completely agree with your review! I was actually blown away by the "feel" the first time I drove an FRS.

Just out of curiosity, have you driven an Evo VIII/IX?

Originally Posted by tacoss23

I'm glad to hear an Evo owner not calling this car "slow". It encourages me after all the "slow" comments I hear. (I'm getting a '14 BRZ).

I come from driving almost strictly german cars all my life, so when I test drove this car it felt fun, different, raw, however......the power part for me felt...I don't know, not slow, but lets just say....I thought I was going faster.

At any point it felt inadequate, but every time I looked at the speedometer few seconds after a curve, I was like "oh...still only 54 mph, hmm..."

So I'm still scared about the paper number "6.5 sec" on the reviews, and the comments most people post. But if an Evo owner (I drove one for an entire summer 2 years ago) thinks the power is adequate, then I feel more comfortable with my upcoming purchase.

I'm glad that it helps. Obviously it's slowER than an Evo, but it's not as if I were expecting any different when it's down close to 100 hp and puts out just above half the torque. I'd have a good time with it, I'll put it that way... though highway rolls against pricier cars won't be as fun, but again that's not what this car is about. But that doesn't mean I can't miss it, even if I do value cornering over everything else. (Some of my most memorable moments in a car are in something insane going straight... being in a Ferrari hitting redline while accelerating on a straight is still very thrilling.)

Originally Posted by Bristecom

The Evo IX has the best seating position/controls I have ever felt. The steering wheel, seats, shifter and pedals are all pretty much ideal for me. And it also has more feedback than the FR-S. However, the Evo is a larger sedan so you can definitely feel that extra length and higher center of gravity. My Eclipse GSX (which is based off the old Evo platform) is more compact than the Evo's for less body roll but it's not as refined.

Yeah, I really love the seats and where everything is positioned. Heel-toeing is really easy, perhaps slightly easier than it was in the FR-S (though the FR-S's pedals are placed very well too). I HATED heel-toeing in a 370Z, WRX/STI, etc. since those cars pedal placements seemed a little off of perfect.

Originally Posted by Bristecom

To me, the Evo's almost have too much power so I prefer the tiny turbo in the Eclipse GSX for minimal lag. The FR-S picks up much better in the low end but I was pretty disappointed the last time I drove it. I tried accelerating onto the highway and it felt like it was barely moving over 3k. Now, it may just be a matter of me finding how to shift around that torque dip but it really did bug me that time. With the Evo and Eclipse, the torque dip is down low (below 2.5-3k) but it packs a punch from there on up. But with the FR-S it seems I will have to learn to either keep it below 3k or downshift to over 5k. So yeah, I'll give it another thorough test drive in a few months when the 2014's are out to see if that's something I can deal with.

That's odd that you prefer the "tiny turbo" in the Eclipse GS-T/GSX, though I haven't driven one in YEARS so I don't remember that well how the car performed. But the Evo lag isn't bad at all for what it is, unless you are in a much higher gear trying to pull from a relatively low rpm but you'd be better off downshifting anyway, like in any other car not powered by an LSx motor.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

That's odd that you prefer the "tiny turbo" in the Eclipse GS-T/GSX, though I haven't driven one in YEARS so I don't remember that well how the car performed. But the Evo lag isn't bad at all for what it is, unless you are in a much higher gear trying to pull from a relatively low rpm but you'd be better off downshifting anyway, like in any other car not powered by an LSx motor.

Yeah, the lag is really not that bad in the Evo's if you know how to slip the clutch just right and keep it in the power band. But I definitely notice the difference going back to back. The Eclipse just seems like it's almost always in the boost range where as I often found myself caught out with the Evo. Also, with the Evo, if you go full throttle, you're pretty much instantly speeding but in the Eclipse, I can go full throttle pretty much all the time and not be going too fast. To get into the fun zone with the Evo X, I usually end up going way too fast which is a little too risky. Plus, the Evo X just feels more disconnected and oversized than the Evo IX or Eclipse GSX.

So with that said, I love the feeling of acceleration (which is usually related to torque and a low center of gravity), but not necessarily actual speed. The Eclipse GSX pretty much nails that aspect while the FR-S comes close with the exception of the torque dip. That's why I still think the FR-S would have been perfect with a 2.2-2.5 liter engine for more mid-to-high-range torque!

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Yeah, the lag is really not that bad in the Evo's if you know how to slip the clutch just right and keep it in the power band. But I definitely notice the difference going back to back. The Eclipse just seems like it's almost always in the boost range where as I often found myself caught out with the Evo. Also, with the Evo, if you go full throttle, you're pretty much instantly speeding but in the Eclipse, I can go full throttle pretty much all the time and not be going too fast.

But luckily you don't need to go WOT to get moving in a hurry. Giving it even 1/2 throttle will utilize the cams more (so you'll still pick up speed) without hitting full boost (thus avoiding getting into trouble a little bit better). So you'll hear the cams go to work but you won't really hear the turbo whistling.

Originally Posted by Bristecom

So with that said, I love the feeling of acceleration (which is usually related to torque and a low center of gravity), but not necessarily actual speed. The Eclipse GSX pretty much nails that aspect while the FR-S comes close with the exception of the torque dip. That's why I still think the FR-S would have been perfect with a 2.2-2.5 liter engine for more mid-to-high-range torque!

I think 2.0 is a good size, though anything over 2.2 would be a little too big, plus they'd likely have lost some top end and also the 7500 rpm redline without doing too many crazy things to the motor that would increase its price.

[SS4goku]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Just out of curiosity, have you driven an Evo VIII/IX?

Yes, I've driven a few VIII's and IX's. I was actually in the market for a IX before I got my first X (I've purchased 2 so far from Sam at SC Mitsu) but I couldn't find a clean IX for a decent price. Although I found The X is a better daily than the IX or VIII (IMO).

My friends and coworkers think I'm nuts that I prefer the driving dynamics and characteristics of the BRZ/FRS to the X... but then again I did come from a S2000 and loved/miss that car.

I think I've seen your screen name on SoCalEvo before lol. I'm a SCE guy too

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by theTRDshop

Yes, I've driven a few VIII's and IX's. I was actually in the market for a IX before I got my first X (I've purchased 2 so far from Sam at SC Mitsu) but I couldn't find a clean IX for a decent price. Although I found The X is a better daily than the IX or VIII (IMO).

My friends and coworkers think I'm nuts that I prefer the driving dynamics and characteristics of the BRZ/FRS to the X... but then again I did come from a S2000 and loved/miss that car.

I think I've seen your screen name on SoCalEvo before lol. I'm a SCE guy too

Haha yeah, I'm usually known as the insurance guy on SCE. Both of my Evos were purchased through SCM (though in both cases, we had to get it from LB's inventory to get the color and model I wanted), but they were both also purchased new when they were out, so it was a little bit easier to get what I wanted. I'd agree that the X is a better DD than the VIII/IX just based off of its merits.

[SS4goku]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Haha yeah, I'm usually known as the insurance guy on SCE. Both of my Evos were purchased through SCM (though in both cases, we had to get it from LB's inventory to get the color and model I wanted), but they were both also purchased new when they were out, so it was a little bit easier to get what I wanted. I'd agree that the X is a better DD than the VIII/IX just based off of its merits.

Ah, I knew I saw your name on there before haha.

[pacent]

Any reason why your Evo remains stock? I grew tired of my Evo a few years back, but threw in some bolt ons, and the smiles came rushing back. Its hard to beat the 4g63 in terms of HP gained/dollars spent in mods.

I keep coming back here hoping that a factory turbo FRS/BRZ would come out.