BRZ STi tS Confirmed. Teased on Official Website

[snky_snky]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Best bet to enjoy those ramps is late night.

This

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Marchy

having driven through California only 3 times, you must drive stupid fast. I carry a faster pace than most in wa and found myself to be one of the slower cars on the road in california.

People are crazy on the freeway. Depending on where you are, the flow of traffic may be as high as 95+ (out in the desert). LA used to be 80-85 when it was open, but lately it's 55-65 since CHP is out in full force with every intention of writing tickets for even 5mph over...

I'm generally one of the slower drivers on the freeways. Back roads... I may not be going fast, but I won't slow down for turns.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm clueless as to why everyone thinks that Porsche's pricing structure is a logical one. B/c that's what everyone is arguing for here, whether they know it or not.

I know you think it is crazy that people think it will be around ~$35k if they do come out with a turbo model. You and I have argued about it before so I decided to put this together:

This is using the non-base model for the cars. A car company is not just going to add a turbo to the lowest model, they are almost always going to take the higher non-performance model and add performance. For instance, it wouldn't be fair to compare the Focus ST to the based Focus sedan, it is a HUGE price difference. So I used mostly the highest model, aside from the Focus and Fiesta because the Titanium models of those two cars some with a bunch of tech items the ST doesn't get.

Focus SE Hatch = $19,115
Focus ST = $24,115
Difference = $5000 = 26% (of the non-turbo model price)

WRX Premium = $28,295
WRX STi = $34,295 (There is also a Premium STI model that is $3k more!)
Difference = $6,000 = 21%

Fiesta SE Hatch = $16,050
Fiesta ST = $21,400
Difference = $5,350 = 33%

Golf = $18,095
Golf GTI = $24,200
Difference = $6105 = 34%

Veloster = $17,600
Veloster Turbo = $22,100
Difference = $4,500 = 26%

Mazda 3 5-Door = $20,000
MazdaSpeed3 = $24,200
Difference = $4,200 = 21%

Average percent difference = 27%

BRZ Premium = $25,495
Turbo Price Estimate = $32,380

But lets face it, industry shows and, to be fair with the above data, it would be an upgrade from the Limited model.

BRZ Limited = $27,495
Turbo Price Estimate = $34,920

Pretty darn close to $35k if you ask me.

And you can say that all those cars had suspension and brake upgrades as well but you are "straight trippin" if you think that a turbo model of the BRZ would come out and Subaru wouldn't upgrade the suspension and brakes and other things.

Just because Subaru CAN make a turbo version and sell it from the base model for a couple thousand dollars extra, does not mean Subaru WILL do that....

[CSG Mike]

@Marchy: You're barking at the wrong tree... :p

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Average percent difference = 27%

I'm too lazy to look up old MSRPs, but I wonder if this translates to the 997... (4S vs Turbo)

[NemesisPrime909]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Why? What's wrong with more power?

Personally, I think it's embarrassing that the girl next door in her Rav4 can out-accelerate us by just stomping on her gas pedal. In a SUV.

seems to be more issues here than "we need more power"

i must also ask you guys who are talking about overtaking someone on the road, Just how fast are you driving?

i mean When I'm driving, I drive the speed limit.

If I approach someone who's driving less than the speed limit and the lane(s) next to them are vacant then I just flip on the indicators and go around them. If the lane(s) aren't free, I just slow down.

If I suspect a Driver is being fiddly with their brakes or whatever, I'll just switch lanes or even pull back. I've found many drivers are pre-occupied so it's best to pull back and avoid them.

there are solutions for issues dealing with slow/wonky drivers.

I don't see how "we need a factory turbo" would be a solution


all that said, I'm not against Subaru offering a turbo. But those who keep saying that this car needs a turbo for overtaking regular joes and janes on the road, I don't see your logic.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by NemesisPrime909

seems to be more issues here than "we need more power"

i must also ask you guys who are talking about overtaking someone on the road, Just how fast are you driving?

i mean When I'm driving, I drive the speed limit.

If I approach someone who's driving less than the speed limit and the lane(s) next to them are vacant then I just flip on the indicators and go around them. If the lane(s) aren't free, I just slow down.

If I suspect a Driver is being fiddly with their brakes or whatever, I'll just switch lanes or even pull back. I've found many drivers are pre-occupied so it's best to pull back and avoid them.

there are solutions for issues dealing with slow/wonky drivers.

I don't see how "we need a factory turbo" would be a solution


all that said, I'm not against Subaru offering a turbo. But those who keep saying that this car needs a turbo for overtaking regular joes and janes on the road, I don't see your logic.

CA drivers may be a bit more... wild than the OK drivers...

We measure distance in units of time...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

More durable internals, problem solved, and inexpensively. Remember, hypothetically we're still only talking about 300hp or at most. Not like it's a 350-400hp mosnster.

You're not getting more durable internals...emissions always comes first.

[WolfpackS2k]

In my earlier post about curvy roads and traffic, I wasn't blaming traffic on anything related to the car. Rather saying that it's not easy (on public roads) to enjoy this car the way that puts a big smile on your face. An extra 50 hp cold help you get grins as well, from stomping on the throttle more...which something that more readily able to be done on public roads

Dylan, very nice post with the cost comparisons. However several of those models show do not have comparable equipment levels. And if Subaru sees it fit to offer a WRX STI in two trim levels (Premium & Limited) I don't see why they couldn't do the same for the BRZ

Marchy, I highly doubt that a turbo charged BRZ would have 300 lb-ft of torque. I agree that a doubling of torque would require significant drivetrain modifications. However I don't think a factory turbo would be more than 280hp with 230 ft-lb or so.

And I'm telling you, the brakes are already up to the task.

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

You're not getting more durable internals...emissions always comes first.

I'm not sure what more durable transmission internals have to do with reduced emissions. Unless you think more durable means heavier, which it could but it could also be done without making it heavier.


BTW, love this engaging conversation with all you gents :happy0180:

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm not sure what more durable transmission internals have to do with reduced emissions. Unless you think more durable means heavier, which it could but it could also be done without making it heavier.

Well, what do you need the internals for? For moar power. How do you make moar power? With moar emissions. Emissions is the death of this type of engine.

[dsgerbc]

I wonder how CAFE/emission regulations treat things like TRD superchargers that don't void factory warranty. Is there a loophole to build an NA car with decent emissions, but offer an 'aftermarket', but factory-backed supercharger and screw the emissions in states that don't do emission testing?

[WolfpackS2k]

CAFE fleet standards more or less don't apply to any potential BRZ turbo model. The small production of that model would barely affect Subaru's fleet average.

as to your other question, no clue

[chanomatik]

I drive like a demon... and an angel... depends on whether or not cops are around.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Dylan, very nice post with the cost comparisons. However several of those models show do not have comparable equipment levels. And if Subaru sees it fit to offer a WRX STI in two trim levels (Premium & Limited) I don't see why they couldn't do the same for the BRZ

They are pretty similarly equipped to be honest, aside from the Golf. And in that list, the WRX Premium is better equipped (performance aside) than the STi I listed.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

And I'm telling you, the brakes are already up to the task.

I am sure they are. I am sure the suspension is up to the task too. Doesn't mean that Subaru deems them up to the task.

I am hoping that if a turbo model of the BRZ comes out that you can get it in the lower trim and for a few grand more because if it is $35k, I won't be able to afford it. But I am hoping Subaru knows they will sell it in the $35k range and will not do it because they won't sell enough at that price. Mostly because I don't want to sell my.