BRZ STi tS Confirmed. Teased on Official Website

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Why? They already have the engine and most of the supporting modifications to the chassis, etc. won't actually cost them more to produce. Other than R&D I don't see any reason for it to cost that much more.

I'm clueless as to why everyone thinks that Porsche's pricing structure is a logical one. B/c that's what everyone is arguing for here, whether they know it or not.

Have you ever looked into the cost of a 458 Challenge vs a 458 Italia? Disregarding the cost of ownership, but just the car itself.....

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's a bit different, because the STI has (in comparison to a WRX):

- A different engine
- A different turbo
- A different transmission
- A different set of differentials

The list goes on...

I know, I owned both. I was just saying that some people refuse to go up to an STI despite all that if they're just going to autox their car. Or they figure they're going to upgrade their stuff better than what an STI has stock. However, I think the STI is a better package still, even if solely for reliability. I don't trust the WRX as far as I can throw it at this point.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So point me in the right direction for under $30k

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement 2 spots up. We use our cars for different things. As an autoxing vehicle I can't imagine this car being anything but outstanding across the board. However after 4 seasons of autoxing I got tired of getting <10 minutes of driving in during an 8 hour session. Thus I moved onto HPDEs where just having a light nimble car isn't really enough to tickle your fancy without a decent PTW ratio.

However, tell me what makes the tS BRZ a better platform for tracking? The main (only?) functional differences are:
-brakes (stock brakes are fine for tracking)
-aerodynamics (a non-issue at stock power of 200hp, as it's already pretty good)
-handling (already really good, and honestly anyone that's going to seriously track their car a lot will install a custom set up that suits their likings)

I just meant that stuff is already there, you just have to provide the engine. Obviously Subaru doesn't want to give you a car that's completely track-ready, as proven by how they deal with their performance car warranties.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Can you point to a car which actually got the kit installed and factory warrantied? Every time I talked to my local Scion dealership they said it was still in development. Eventually, they said it wasn't available.

There were plenty, don't see what pointing to a particular car will do. You can go onto the tC forums and ask.

[chanomatik]

All bickering aside, what did you guys really expect from a cheap, RWD sports coupe? If it could've indeed been more, then it would've cost more, right? And if the launch of the FT-86 failed, then what would be the point of several trim levels of a failed car at launch? All of this was a gamble in Toyota and Subaru's eyes.

I agree you guys should get what you want, eventually, but let this play out first. These cars aren't even two years old yet. Toyota and Subaru are obviously on to something if people are THIS excited about stylish, yet cheap and slow RWD sports cars.

[snky_snky]

This thread is shifting towards what can be had in this price range, so tS model aside, this is my opinion:

I imagine that before many owners here bought their BRZ, they compared the price of this vehicle to a new WRX. They were pretty damn close, when I was cross-shopping the two. At that point, the obvious question to me (as someone who didn't require extra cargo space or AWD, but likes both cars in question) was, "do I prefer more power, or better handling?" I can't have both at $28k.

I still stand by my earlier comment that I'd love to see plenty of upgrade options (i.e a factory turbo) in the future, but if your clamoring for more power from the Subaru at this price, I likely might've bought a WRX instead.

I knew what I was getting into with this car. I was prepared to be out-accelerated at a red light. ....who cares? Why are you trying so hard? haha. I'm much more interested in finding a curvy road, or an open on ramp and revving the FA20 out. It's a blast.

Side note: Did anyone follow motor trends 10 Best Driver's Cars last year? Pretty accurate perspective (although exaggerated by comparing it to supercars) on what the BRZ can and can't do for under $30k.

[WolfpackS2k]

I knew what I was getting into with this car. I was prepared to be out-accelerated at a red light. ....who cares? Why are you trying so hard? haha. I'm much more interested in finding a curvy road, or an open on ramp and revving the FA20 out. It's a blast.

And sadly however often do you get stuck behind someone driving slowly on that curvy road, or that on ramp? For me it's 90% of the time (probably higher for just interstate on ramps).

well its going to need R&D to place the engine, ensure that the current mounts can handle the increase in power. It will also need some work to re-balance the car for the added weight of a more powerful engine and to ensure you keep the low center of gravity.

Agreed, but that's probably the biggest part of a potential cost increased (after the engine)

Will need some work to trim fat elsewhere to maintain the 2760 lbs curb weight goal.

Not really necessary as long as it stays within 100lbs

It will likely require a different transmission to handle the increase of power over the life of the vehicle (or at least past 70k miles).

More durable internals, problem solved, and inexpensively. Remember, hypothetically we're still only talking about 300hp or at most. Not like it's a 350-400hp mosnster.

It will require new wheels and tires,

Take the WRX's wheels/tires. That costs next to nothing

it may require increased chassy re-inforcement or suspension work (already planned for the "TS"),

Not much cost involved here. Different springs or thicker roll bars cost the manufacturer virtually nothing (compared to the current pieces)

it will require those big fat brakes.

Um, no? The brakes are fine.

And then you'll have to pay for all the STI trim which cost a pretty penny.

What trim? A functional spoiler? If that stuff came standard on the car it would be a fraction of it's "parts catalog" price. It's not even needed, not sure why you think it would be part of the deal.

A few things you didn't mention, that I feel are much more necessary, would be an enlarged radiator and an oil cooler.

[snky_snky]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

And sadly however often do you get stuck behind someone driving slowly on that curvy road, or that on ramp? For me it's 90% of the time (probably higher for just interstate on ramps).

Not very often, to be honest. I'm not looking to hoon this thing around in rush hour traffic haha. When it's busy, I'm already expecting to drive patiently. I'm just blending in with traffic at that point.

[snky_snky]

Or, what Marchy has said ^^^

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

And sadly however often do you get stuck behind someone driving slowly on that curvy road, or that on ramp? For me it's 90% of the time (probably higher for just interstate on ramps).

Do you drop one gear or two? I eventually realized I could drop two gears and get the tires to squeal and get as much oomph from my BRZ as I did with my WRX dropping one gear (or at least the similar feeling of).

Just a thought. I honestly have more troubles getting around people several car lengths in front of me when I'm anticipating trouble than when someone is directly in front of me. Whether in a slow car or fast, without breaking the law, you're pretty much screwed.

It is supremely frustrating when someone takes an on-ramp slowly. There was a group of us cruising the other day, most of them turbocharged Subies. We took the highway circular on-ramp. I was riding everyone in front of me so hard that I was tempted to blast through the shoulder and get up front. When we finally got on the highway I had my fun. We got to a stop light with all our windows rolled down and I got comments about how feisty the BRZ was! hahaha

I'm just saying that sometimes it's about how the car is driven. On a track or quarter mile this car would (and does, apparently) fall flat. Anything else, though, I think it pulls more than its weight.

Just my observations after 9 months and 25k miles driven from Alaska to southern Cali through Arizona and Colorado and back up to Alberta and home again.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Can you point to a car which actually got the kit installed and factory warrantied? Every time I talked to my local Scion dealership they said it was still in development. Eventually, they said it wasn't available.

I was at a Scion dealership two weeks ago, the salesman told me they have a SC kit that is warrantied if they install it. He walked me over to the parts guy who said they haven't sold any because it's $31k. Pretty funny.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Marchy

so just stop on that curvy road (if there are no cars behind you) and wait. Wait until enough time has passed to give you a nice long stretch of this awesome curvy backroad before you meet up with slow poke again. You might be surprised how often that slow poke will pull over when he see's you again (happens all the time for me)

That never happens in California.... although I probably carry a faster pace than most.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Marchy

so just stop on that curvy road (if there are no cars behind you) and wait. Wait until enough time has passed to give you a nice long stretch of this awesome curvy backroad before you meet up with slow poke again. You might be surprised how often that slow poke will pull over when he see's you again (happens all the time for me)

I'm not that lucky. And naturally I'm not referring to during rush hour. Unfortunately where I live most of the on/off ramps aren't cloverleafs. Instead those are saved for areas where the interstate passes by busier traffic intersections (like around shopping malls). So there's always traffic. Best bet to enjoy those ramps is late night.

I'm fortunate to have the dragon around 4 hours away, but that doesn't mean i can go there at the drop of a hat

[snky_snky]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I'm not that lucky. And naturally I'm not referring to during rush hour. Unfortunately where I live most of the on/off ramps aren't cloverleafs. Instead those are saved for areas where the interstate passes by busier traffic intersections (like around shopping malls). So there's always traffic. Best bet to enjoy those ramps is late night.

I'm fortunate to have the dragon around 4 hours away, but that doesn't mean i can go there at the drop of a hat

That is definitely a bummer, but Im not sure why the traffic in your area is your car's fault haha.

[CSG Mike]

On a side note, to give you an idea of how much I drive, 25k miles were put on the CSG BRZ, and it's been down for about 8 of the last 13 months.

I drive something like 50-60k miles a year...