EcuTek vs BRZ-Edit

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by regal

Tell me if this is incorrect (it was forwarded to me):

EcuTek encrypts the ECU and voids the warranty even if it is only used to load the latest OEM tunes as their protocol leaves encryption traceable by software forensics.

BRZ-Edit on the other hand uses the same protocol to flash as the dealer, you can keep you ECU up to date and avoid the 2 hr drive to the dealer or whatever hassle the dealer may give without worry of a denied warranty claim?

I just don't "get" why so many would risk warranty on a $25k-$30k car when it would be much safer to use a BRZ-edit tuner.

regal, absolutely not...the ECU is NOT encrypted. You put the stock tune back in at any time. If you have the tuned file with RaceROM, that particular one is not readable by other tuning tools (for now...) But you can always put the stock file back in, then use a tuning tool of your choice or take it to the dealer. This is exactly the kind of stuff that is being spread that is not accurate.

quoncept, I don't know you nor do I have any more time to devote to this thread, but pretty much most of what you have in there is rather exaggerated. I can totally see where you can get this impression from reading some of the online nonsense that goes on here and elsewhere (and some of it is quite convincing) but it is simply not the case. I don't know Colby and kudos to him for keeping the tactrix thing going, but I can assure you there is no secret marketing strategy or anything of the sort. Feel free to stop in at anytime and you can see the transparency.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

quoncept, I don't know you nor do I have any more time to devote to this thread, but pretty much most of what you have in there is rather exaggerated. I can totally see where you can get this impression from reading some of the online nonsense that goes on here and elsewhere (and some of it is quite convincing) but it is simply not the case. I don't know Colby and kudos to him for keeping the tactrix thing going, but I can assure you there is no secret marketing strategy or anything of the sort. Feel free to stop in at anytime and you can see the transparency.

In case you missed it, I wrote RomRaider. I wonder what, specifically, you think was exaggerated. I've been privy to numerous letters from Ecutek and Cobb and spoken with them and their goons many times. I'll tell you this - everything they have told you about open source tuning that isn't conjecture is a bald faced lie.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by qoncept

In case you missed it, I wrote RomRaider. I wonder what, specifically, you think was exaggerated. I've been privy to numerous letters from Ecutek and Cobb and spoken with them and their goons many times. I'll tell you this - everything they have told you about open source tuning that isn't conjecture is a bald faced lie.

Wow. Mad respect dude!

Anything in the works for FRS? Neither epifan or ecutek read the stock ecu. They simply supply the stock base file. You modify those and flash them.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Toma

Wow. Mad respect dude!

Anything in the works for FRS? Neither epifan or ecutek read the stock ecu. They simply supply the stock base file. You modify those and flash them.

Aside from a few months in 2011 I haven't been associated with RomRaider for a few years for reasons explained here. We'll tune our cars for free eventually but don't hold your breath. I'm running autox in stock class so I personally don't have the inclination to work on it.

[spgrizz22]

Originally Posted by Dodzilla

Vishnu was working on some sort of self-tuning system at one point, I have no idea how that all panned out for them but at some point someone will make it a reality. Tuning isn't magic, it can be codified. The ECUs could even talk to each other, share information, auto-update etc...

Google has already taught cars to drive themselves, a self-tuning ECU wouldn't be that hard by comparison.

Vishnu sounds like an Indian name

[Dodzilla]

We probably just have to bide our time until you get tired of the mid-range torque canyon

Originally Posted by qoncept

We'll tune our cars for free eventually but don't hold your breath. I'm running autox in stock class so I personally don't have the inclination to work on it.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by Dodzilla

We probably just have to bide our time until you get tired of the mid-range torque canyon

It's not in the "tune". Seems a tune can make the recovery ~100 rpm quicker, and give a little boost, but seems very minor.

We've clocked acceleration data before and after numerous "tunes" on a track "testbed" car, and what helps the most is letting the Advance mulitplier go to 1, and raising the rev limit/shift point to 7800 or 7900 (depending on what gear your are in). Aside from that, actually measuring a performance difference with the minor gains tunes make has been "statistically insignificant".

Tuning the ECU though will be handy when guys start to really mod these things, or anytime they mess with the MAF plumbing, cams, turbos etc etc

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Toma

You referring to my post? First, after 20 years of tuning, I can assure you you are very wrong. Weve already seen this in the dyno tests on this site. Secondly. ... it is the most critical part of the tune. You fuck that up....u lose the motor. Fuck up part throttle and maybe your fuel trims are out of line or you hit limp home mode or something.

I digress though. Any condition can be data logged. Not just wot. A dyno and other equipment can measure anything you want. Its not a black art. Its math, science and logic.

It was a general statement. Pardon me if I don't bow to your '20 years of tuning' (it is possible to do something wrong/badly for 20 years, although I don't know if that applies to you or not).

My statement was the top line is a tiny part of calibrating a car. Cruise, idle, transient control takes considerably longer to get right. Dyno queens wouldn't know this though.

I come from a world of real-time/live tuning though, not this datalog/obd-flash crap. So perhaps if that's your world, then you have to approach things in a different way.

[Dodzilla]

Nobody said it was in the tune. The tune would be part of the solution (probably along with a header and whatever else) and good motivation for Qoncept if he was tired of the lack of mid range power.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

It was a general statement. Pardon me if I don't bow to your '20 years of tuning' (it is possible to do something wrong/badly for 20 years, although I don't know if that applies to you or not).

My statement was the top line is a tiny part of calibrating a car. Cruise, idle, transient control takes considerably longer to get right. Dyno queens wouldn't know this though.

I come from a world of real-time/live tuning though, not this datalog/obd-flash crap. So perhaps if that's your world, then you have to approach things in a different way.

Wasn't saying the other stuff is not time consuming lol. Far from it.... if it needs adjusting, or complete remap. Just saying WOT is not to be taken lightly with generic statements. The consequences of messing up a wot tune are severe, and from my experience, despite how "easy" it is, many still get it wrong on a frequent basis.

These are near stock engines. Subaru "part throttle" mapping is fine for 95% of guys. The "seat of the pants" gains I have seen so far are nothing but DBW control "trickery" or personal preference on how the throttle is controlled.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by regal

Its funny you mention that if the engine pulls too much timing due to knock correction it will destroy the cats. We have several documented cases that this happens more than we would like with the stock tune, especially with high oil temps. Add that to the heavy "dethrottling" and I wouldn't be surprised if there are already folks with ceramic particles making their way into the engine. I know Toyota had the same issue with their last sports car and got away with it, quite a few MR-S owners lost compression shortly after the warranty ended with cat ceramic breaking down. MsgMike's tear down showed broken up cats.

Sort of old thread I know but let's be clear on a few things, the 1ZZ does not have VVTi on the exhaust cams (it's not dual VVTi), the stock exhaust cam setting does not have much overlap I believe. The 1ZZ had oil control ring problems and severe oil consumption problems (I have some scary firsthand experience) that probably destroyed things downstream pretty quickly. If your cats disintegrate, a less efficient tune isn't going to save you. When the cats break, it's not hard to imagine that a clogged exhaust system could mean quite high backpressure at idle, and knowing that there's ~0.7 bar vacuum on top of the already low VE at low rpm, it's not hard to see why there would be some backflow of exhaust into the cylinder even without valve timing to aid it.

For reasons arghx7 mentioned, I don't think the tune is where you should look if you really want to get more reliability, because engine tuning affects the durability of emissions systems and that is heavily regulated so you can expect that they did a pretty good job there.

[RedLeader]

So, for the BRZedit (or OS solution) fanboys: What happens if in the process of reflashing a tune you or your favorite tuner made for you, you have an OBD2 failure and the ECU is part programmed? Do you just start over and it flashes itself again no problems? What do you do when you brick your ECU because of a fault during the flash?

[regal]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Sort of old thread I know but let's be clear on a few things, the 1ZZ does not have VVTi on the exhaust cams (it's not dual VVTi), the stock exhaust cam setting does not have much overlap I believe. The 1ZZ had oil control ring problems and severe oil consumption problems (I have some scary firsthand experience) that probably destroyed things downstream pretty quickly. If your cats disintegrate, a less efficient tune isn't going to save you. When the cats break, it's not hard to imagine that a clogged exhaust system could mean quite high backpressure at idle, and knowing that there's ~0.7 bar vacuum on top of the already low VE at low rpm, it's not hard to see why there would be some backflow of exhaust into the cylinder even without valve timing to aid it.

For reasons arghx7 mentioned, I don't think the tune is where you should look if you really want to get more reliability, because engine tuning affects the durability of emissions systems and that is heavily regulated so you can expect that they did a pretty good job there.

Ever look at the EGT's these FA20's put out in stock form? The header cats have already melted on a few stock cars. A catless header is a must do mod.

I've been in contact with a few highly respected Subaru tuners. Subaru engines and the tuning requires a deferent strategy than most of the vendors on this forum.

What this car needs is a "track tune". For those unfamiliar with the term it basically means a slight detune to make the engine hold up over extended runs in the power band. I've contacted Evans Tuning who have an impeccable reputation with Subaru's, unfortunately they and almost all the expert Subaru tuners on the east coast are COBB only and can't tune our cars.

There is Coyote Tuning in Australia but they only due dyno tuning. I'm looking for a real track tune, brzedit preferred. I will update this thread if I find someone.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by regal

Ever look at the EGT's these FA20's put out in stock form?

Yes, I have. What figures have you measured?