Quantifying Differences in Dampers

[Cjymiller]

In my effort to discover the world of suspensions and find what is best for my needs, I've come across a wealth of information with regards to spring rates, motion ratios, brand reputations and more. Up to this point I have been able to understand the different roles of a coil-over and that ride quality is largely dependent on valving within the damper.

Is there an objective method to quantify the difference in valving between different dampers? All I seem to hear is word of mouth and subjective opinions. Really nailing down what exactly makes the difference in ride quality between coil-overs would be super helpful.

P.S. - Please let me know if I'm wrong here or not seeing the whole picture since I am still learning.

Cheers,

-Chris

[CSG Mike]

Properly damped suspension will absorb the bumps of the road, giving you nice ride quality, while preventing the "sloshing" or "bouncy" motion.

In other words, it'll maximize the tires' contact with the road.

[fatoni]

i would start by looking at shock dynos and intended spring rates.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i would start by looking at shock dynos and intended spring rates.

I am in the same boat as OP. It seems like shock dynos are the way to go but finding if and where they have been published isn't easy nor is interpreting them. I'd love if one of the vendors could do a write up on not just reading a shock dyno but also determining what will suit us best for what we each want from our cars.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

I am in the same boat as OP. It seems like shock dynos are the way to go but finding if and where they have been published isn't easy nor is interpreting them. I'd love if one of the vendors could do a write up on not just reading a shock dyno but also determining what will suit us best for what we each want from our cars.

Shock dynos only tell you one story. Everything looks great theoretically, but it does not necessarily mean it'll work well in real life.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage

Shock dynos only tell you one story. Everything looks great theoretically, but it does not necessarily mean it'll work well in real life.

So really we should just find a brand we trust and go with that?

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

So really we should just find a brand we trust and go with that?

Not necessarily either. Everybody has some preference on brands, but that's simply based on present and past experiences. It sounds very vague, but the setup has to make sense. Something that is single adjustable means either the compression or the rebound is the constraining factor, thus, it would work well with one spring rate at a given valving. But the argument lies that there are racing sanctions that require to have 1-way adjustable shocks. Keep in mind those guys who win those competitions also fork out quite a bit of money to valve it specifically for their setup. It also entails they spend a significant amount of time testing and sending back feedback to further refine the valving.

Something that has two, three, or four way adjustments means you can play with the high and low speed compression and rebound. The finer the adjustments, the better you are able to dial in the setup according to the surface you're driving on. These multi-way adjustments allows you to use a range of spring rates as well.

There is a reason why people gravitate toward Penske, Sachs, Ohlins, JRZ, Motons, Bilstein (double adjustable version), and Konis (the double adjustable versions). They are all tried and proven setups (and why race teams use them), however, no off the shelf is 100% completely tailored to every setup. Every race team sends their feedback to the suspension company to have it valved specifically to their setup and driver preference. Do this multiple times and you see why racing gets so expensive. Materials and skilled labor also come into play as well and no suspension company is willing to take a loss on components. Do you want to pay $8/hr non-skilled dishwasher to rebuild your suspension? When we factor in all the math, there is a general understanding as to why some systems work better than others.

There is a setback however. When the damper has improper valving and setup, it will always suck. Doesn't matter if you fork $100k at the suspension. If the setup and valving isn't right, it just won't perform.

[pitstops]

tein's website also has good info. progressive vs linear springs, monotube vs twintube..etc http://www.tein.com/classroom/index.html

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage

Shock dynos only tell you one story. Everything looks great theoretically, but it does not necessarily mean it'll work well in real life.

i wasnt saying that they are. i just wanted to point out that a company that makes a great shock, will not give you trouble in finding shock dynos. when its my money and im not on a budget, i stick with revalved bilstiens because i can at least know what im getting. ots $1000 coilovers leaeve me with questions. thats all i meant.

[Captain Snooze]

I posted a similar thread here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ight=objective

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i wasnt saying that they are. i just wanted to point out that a company that makes a great shock, will not give you trouble in finding shock dynos. when its my money and im not on a budget, i stick with revalved bilstiens because i can at least know what im getting. ots $1000 coilovers leaeve me with questions. thats all i meant.

Keep in mind, some manufacturers use shock dynos to market their products as if the dynos are golden.

Just how the dynograph of a turbo car tells you nothing about how responsive the throttle pedal is, the shock dynos of a damper only tell you how the dampers respond to a given force (not how the interact with a given spring).

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Keep in mind, some manufacturers use shock dynos to market their products as if the dynos are golden.

Just how the dynograph of a turbo car tells you nothing about how responsive the throttle pedal is, the shock dynos of a damper only tell you how the dampers respond to a given force (not how the interact with a given spring).

im not saying its the be all answer to the questions. i just dont know of any more objective way to measure them other than to buy them, put them on your car and check them out yourself.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im not saying its the be all answer to the questions. i just dont know of any more objective way to measure them other than to buy them, put them on your car and check them out yourself.

Unfortunately, that's so true. Most people aren't willing to swap suspensions multiple times, so they do the best they can by reading reviews and doing research, but it's difficult to filter out the noise.

The best suggestion I can make is to let other people guinea pig the suspension for you, and get rides in different cars. Again, keep in mind that even then, the dampers may not actually be properly adjusted (which is likely true for 99% of the cars out there with coilvers).

Here's a quick guide to basic adjustment (see page 5)

http://www.fordracingparts.com/Downl...e_Boss302s.pdf

We do offer consulting services to both dial in dampers for clients, as well as teach them how to actually adjust dampers themselves (from scratch as well as adjustments based on conditions).

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unfortunately, that's so true. Most people aren't willing to swap suspensions multiple times, so they do the best they can by reading reviews and doing research, but it's difficult to filter out the noise.

The best suggestion I can make is to let other people guinea pig the suspension for you, and get rides in different cars. Again, keep in mind that even then, the dampers may not actually be properly adjusted (which is likely true for 99% of the cars out there with coilvers).

Here's a quick guide to basic adjustment (see page 5)

http://www.fordracingparts.com/Downl...e_Boss302s.pdf

We do offer consulting services to both dial in dampers for clients, as well as teach them how to actually adjust dampers themselves (from scratch as well as adjustments based on conditions).

Interesting, even the factory 3002S allows compression/rebound adjustments. Just shows that there isn't one setting that fits all. External variables such as track conditions will affect damper settings.

This is a pretty interesting read as far as chassis prepping. Starts on page 12.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/Downl...sion%20AV4.pdf