From Challenger to BRZ!?

[WolfpackS2k]

Speaking from personal experience, no, no I haven't.

They're usually the ones in Boxsters/Caymans driving at a decent pace, but that I passed rather easily in my S2000.

[lionbacker54]

i love the challenger. i think it's the best looking car on the market. and the big V-8 makes a great sound. ride is surprisingly comfortable too.

that said, the BRZ is what i ended up buying. like someone here already said, the drive characteristic is totally different. challenger is a great-looking, muscle bound cruiser. the BRZ is however much better in driving dynamics. fun, and light, and responsive. i love it

[WolfpackS2k]

AGreed.

Heck, I use the Challenger too much in Gran Turismo 5 because the engine exhaust sounds soooooooo good

[TRD_86]

super boat VS. sport car

[ericmpena]

Doubt anyone on this forum could honestly say they regret buying the BRZ. That's a nice change from when I was on the Gen Coupe forums and you constantly read about problems with the car, dealership problems, etc.

The BRZ/FRS would be my choice 10/10 times.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by ericmpena

Doubt anyone on this forum could honestly say they regret buying the BRZ. That's a nice change from when I was on the Gen Coupe forums and you constantly read about problems with the car, dealership problems, etc.

The BRZ/FRS would be my choice 10/10 times.

What kind of problems do Gen Coupes have?

[ericmpena]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

What kind of problems do Gen Coupes have?

I bought a 2012 Gen Coupe with 8 miles on it in June 2011:

1. The AC barely worked since day 1. I took it into the dealership and they said it was normal. When I traded it in for the BRZ even the salesman asked me if the AC was broken.
(If it was above 80 degrees outside then I'd have to drive about 20 minutes on the highway before the AC would be semi-cool, not even cold.)

2. The rear speaker crackled since day 1. Had to take it back and get a new speaker ordered (which took a few weeks) and then the dealership installed it.

3. The was a terrible dash rattle that the dealership could not locate or fix. It could be heard over music.

4. In the 2 years I owned the car I found loose screws that fell off of the bottom of the seats, as well as the passenger spring under the seat fell off.

5. There were loose screws/bolts in the engine. Right at 4250RPM you'd hear a very loud buzz/grinding sound. After 3 visits the dealership told me it was normal. Finally after the 4th visit they determined there was a loose bolt on the engine that was resonating at 4250RPM.

6. There was a defect with the gears grinding. I was lucky not to have the problem, but a LOT of people with Gen Coupe reported transmission issues and grinding 5th gear. Many people had to have their transmissions replaced by the dealership. Google it.
In fact, here's a quote from someone on the Gen Coupe Forums talking about his transmission, "They replaced mine twice within 15,000 miles. It's a little better but not completely fixed. I think most of us here have grown used to it."
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t-discuss...grind-fix.html

7. The driver seat had a loose panel on the inside. Whenever I'd get out of the car you could hear the seat "pop". You'd have to squeeze the panels of the seat together to pop it back into place. This wasn't fixable by the dealership apparently.

Bottom line, just because a car looks great doesn't mean it's great quality. After owning my car for 1 year I could already see it aging. It wasn't fun to drive. I took extremely great car of my car. Never had 1 door ding. Always kept it clean and maintained. I bought that car wanting it to last me for 8-10 years. The cheap brand really shows itself after you leave the lot.

People will compare BRZ to Gen Coupes all day, but I say that you can't fix bad quality by adding HP. Hyundai may draw people with their 300HP vehicle, but I'd never want to own one again.

[Seraph]

The answers may vary by area (I'm in San Jose, CA) but...I'm not going to try to sell you on it- I'll just tell you my honest opinion and you can gather experiences and decide yourself. Also, mine is a manual so some experiences are a little different...

1. DRIVING EXPERIENCE: I know cars do not get scaled evenly in all dimensions...but somehow I'm always a little surprised by how wide the wheel base is. The turning radius is great. It's really fun on curvy roads. It's really easy to park but I'm so afraid of dents and scratches that all parking spots look too small to me.

2. RIDE HEIGHT: You know...surprisingly, i do not feel like I'm going to be squished any second now by normal cars and trucks etc. But...i'm used to being short so... ^_^;;

3. POWER:
So...I definitely feel the power difference between my BRZ and the BMW M3 (because there IS a difference in horsepower). So, you will feel a difference but for me it hasn't been an issue. Both of them are manual though - so i can't say what it will be like in an auto... I used to drive an automatic Civic EX which did NOT have enough power for me to pass/get onto the highway safely. I haven't had that issue withe the BRZ. SO, in my experience although the straightline acceleration of the BRZ is not as good as the M3 - it is fully adequate for passing people/exiting/on-ramping. (haha so I feel like a Boss when i drive the M3 but I have a lot more fun in the BRZ)


4. COST: I have a manual, the auto is supposed to get better mpg. I get about 30.5 mpg - My commute is almost exclusively highway.


5. COMFORT: Hmmm I wont' say the seats are super comfy...but they are also not bad. They are a little stiff to start and eventually soften up a bit. I hate that head rest though....other than that it has been decent. Also, it does not feel cramped in there at all. ...but I am short so...haha

6. DRIVING STYLE: Before the break-in period was up- we took ours up to Skyline for a drive. Now it was a lot of fun but we couldn't really push her yet. She drove as confidently and as fast on the curves as the Evo VIII we've been taking up there. BRZ is so much fun on the curvy roads Now that break-in is over I need to take her up there agin.

7. BOUNCY BOUNCE: It does bounce a bit....when you hit uneven pavement at speed.

8. ATTENTION:
Er.... depending on color...I do think cops will target you for speeding. As for general attention - all I've gotten was really positive. It is still new and rare enough you will get people coming up to you to ask about it. Most people are just like "wow, i love your car". Mostly I just see people's heads following my car as I drive past.... (There's a thread around here about "sweet ride bro" encounters and best compliments you've gotten etc if you are worried)

9. UNWANTED COMPETITION:
Mmm might be gender dependent but We have had much more road racing challenges driving the Evo VIII MR when it had its wing on. It was so bad we took the wing off so we wouldn't have to deal with the random guys trying to race us. In the BRZ very little in terms of "challenges". Also, if they know cars, they know the BRZ isn't about straight line speed.


10. AGE GROUP:
No. I see a good number of people who are well above 30. If you are worried about it looking too "young" - just don't mod it much and keep it classy

[e_ticket]

I came from an '07 BMW 328i Sedan and bought a BRZ last Saturday. Both are automatic, as my wife cannot drive a manual, though my preference has always been a stick shift manual transmission. I don't see the appeal of the paddle shifters. I'm not Michael Schumacher and the extra split second advantage on a paddle shift is inconsequential on a trip to Walgreens. Plus the paddles move around with the steering wheel, when with a stick shift, it's just there, right where you left it... but I digress.

The 328 is also heavy. Not Challenger heavy, but certainly moreso than the BRZ. It is better balanced (seriously 50/50 %) and has better brakes. Perhaps the BRZ brakes will have more bite when they are broken in. The 328 can also hold its own on a twisty road, though I suspect a BRZ will do nicely if not better (not sure with the OEM rubber). I'm also not Ken Block, so I won't be drifting down to Best Buy to pick up my copy GTA V in Sept. Point is, I prefer stickier tires and I will probably change the OEM tires out if it turns out I'm not really happy with them. Good excuse to get new rims.

The BRZ is small. That's one of the reasons I bought it. I've always liked that style. Supra came and went and I never bought one. RX7 came and went and never bought one. RX8 came and went and never bought one. Nissan Z cars are still around and never bought one of those either. So this thing comes out and I'm finally ready to buy a small sporty front engined, RWD coupe and so far I am pretty happy with it.

The Bimmer stereo is better. Much in fact. But from what I read about the BRZ stereo, I thought it would sound way worse than it does. I wish it had "more robust" sound, but I can fix that if I throw enough money at it. One thing I am likely not going to "fix" is the steering wheel controls. I will miss those, but obviously it's not a deal breaker as I bought the BRZ anyway.

Back seats.... I wouldn't call them useless necessarily, but man there's not much room back there at all. That said... My wife and I seldom used the rear doors or back seats of the 328 in the six years we've had it. It's like.... paying extra for a couch that converts to a fold away bed. It's more expensive than a conventional couch, and heavy as hell to move around, for a feature you rarely ever use.

Anyway we still have the Bimmer and about a year left on the extended warranty. I'm not sure if I want to own it out of warranty, as they are expensive to repair. Until then though, I thought it would be more useful to us to keep it, rather than to trade it in or sell it (yet). If we need more room in the back, just take the "other car".

By the way I am 45 and waited until now to buy a car like this. I've never been one to really care much about what others think of my personal choices. I ride motorcycles. I shoot guns. I wear offensive tee-shirts. I do whatever I want. This is MURICA, damn it! That's how we roll.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by ericmpena

I bought a 2012 Gen Coupe with 8 miles on it in June 2011:

1. The AC barely worked since day 1. I took it into the dealership and they said it was normal. When I traded it in for the BRZ even the salesman asked me if the AC was broken.
(If it was above 80 degrees outside then I'd have to drive about 20 minutes on the highway before the AC would be semi-cool, not even cold.)

2. The rear speaker crackled since day 1. Had to take it back and get a new speaker ordered (which took a few weeks) and then the dealership installed it.

3. The was a terrible dash rattle that the dealership could not locate or fix. It could be heard over music.

4. In the 2 years I owned the car I found loose screws that fell off of the bottom of the seats, as well as the passenger spring under the seat fell off.

5. There were loose screws/bolts in the engine. Right at 4250RPM you'd hear a very loud buzz/grinding sound. After 3 visits the dealership told me it was normal. Finally after the 4th visit they determined there was a loose bolt on the engine that was resonating at 4250RPM.

6. There was a defect with the gears grinding. I was lucky not to have the problem, but a LOT of people with Gen Coupe reported transmission issues and grinding 5th gear. Many people had to have their transmissions replaced by the dealership. Google it.
In fact, here's a quote from someone on the Gen Coupe Forums talking about his transmission, "They replaced mine twice within 15,000 miles. It's a little better but not completely fixed. I think most of us here have grown used to it."
http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t-discuss...grind-fix.html

7. The driver seat had a loose panel on the inside. Whenever I'd get out of the car you could hear the seat "pop". You'd have to squeeze the panels of the seat together to pop it back into place. This wasn't fixable by the dealership apparently.

Bottom line, just because a car looks great doesn't mean it's great quality. After owning my car for 1 year I could already see it aging. It wasn't fun to drive. I took extremely great car of my car. Never had 1 door ding. Always kept it clean and maintained. I bought that car wanting it to last me for 8-10 years. The cheap brand really shows itself after you leave the lot.

People will compare BRZ to Gen Coupes all day, but I say that you can't fix bad quality by adding HP. Hyundai may draw people with their 300HP vehicle, but I'd never want to own one again.

Holy shit........... Sorry to hear, they certainly look nice but knowing what I know now I will never consider getting one. Thanks for telling me. Although to some people more HP does fix bad quality, those people are idiots though I've always found that 99% of Japan's cars are well made, they take pride and honor in making high quality products.

[lionbacker54]

Originally Posted by ericmpena

Doubt anyone on this forum could honestly say they regret buying the BRZ. That's a nice change from when I was on the Gen Coupe forums and you constantly read about problems with the car, dealership problems, etc.

The BRZ/FRS would be my choice 10/10 times.

I comparison shopped the gen coupe, and there was something I couldn't put my finger on that I just did not like. The salesman was a big track and auto toss guy, and was saying how he personally had the 3.8 gen coupe and loved it and that it could totally kick the brz all over the place. And when you look at the numbers, I think he was right.

However, I was just at the SoloPro auto cross this past weekend and saw no less than 10 brz/fr-s's competing. I did not see a single gen coupe. Something has to be better about the brz than the gen coupe beyond the numbers

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by lionbacker54

I comparison shopped the gen coupe, and there was something I couldn't put my finger on that I just did not like. The salesman was a big track and auto toss guy, and was saying how he personally had the 3.8 gen coupe and loved it and that it could totally kick the brz all over the place. And when you look at the numbers, I think he was right.

However, I was just at the SoloPro auto cross this past weekend and saw no less than 10 brz/fr-s's competing. I did not see a single gen coupe. Something has to be better about the brz than the gen coupe beyond the numbers

Yep these aren't "numbers" cars. You can buy a new Mustang GT for under $30k and lay waste to everything even remotely close in price on the track, but who cares? Unless you're racing on a competitive level, it's a moot point. Pick the car that's the most fun/rewarding for you to drive.

Also agree with you on the autocross point. I see a lot more Twins at my local autocross having fun competing than I see GC owners.

[thill]

Originally Posted by e_ticket

I came from an '07 BMW 328i Sedan and bought a BRZ last Saturday. Both are automatic, as my wife cannot drive a manual, though my preference has always been a stick shift manual transmission. I don't see the appeal of the paddle shifters. I'm not Michael Schumacher and the extra split second advantage on a paddle shift is inconsequential on a trip to Walgreens. Plus the paddles move around with the steering wheel, when with a stick shift, it's just there, right where you left it... but I digress.

The 328 is also heavy. Not Challenger heavy, but certainly moreso than the BRZ. It is better balanced (seriously 50/50 %) and has better brakes. Perhaps the BRZ brakes will have more bite when they are broken in. The 328 can also hold its own on a twisty road, though I suspect a BRZ will do nicely if not better (not sure with the OEM rubber). I'm also not Ken Block, so I won't be drifting down to Best Buy to pick up my copy GTA V in Sept. Point is, I prefer stickier tires and I will probably change the OEM tires out if it turns out I'm not really happy with them. Good excuse to get new rims.

The BRZ is small. That's one of the reasons I bought it. I've always liked that style. Supra came and went and I never bought one. RX7 came and went and never bought one. RX8 came and went and never bought one. Nissan Z cars are still around and never bought one of those either. So this thing comes out and I'm finally ready to buy a small sporty front engined, RWD coupe and so far I am pretty happy with it.

The Bimmer stereo is better. Much in fact. But from what I read about the BRZ stereo, I thought it would sound way worse than it does. I wish it had "more robust" sound, but I can fix that if I throw enough money at it. One thing I am likely not going to "fix" is the steering wheel controls. I will miss those, but obviously it's not a deal breaker as I bought the BRZ anyway.

Back seats.... I wouldn't call them useless necessarily, but man there's not much room back there at all. That said... My wife and I seldom used the rear doors or back seats of the 328 in the six years we've had it. It's like.... paying extra for a couch that converts to a fold away bed. It's more expensive than a conventional couch, and heavy as hell to move around, for a feature you rarely ever use.

Anyway we still have the Bimmer and about a year left on the extended warranty. I'm not sure if I want to own it out of warranty, as they are expensive to repair. Until then though, I thought it would be more useful to us to keep it, rather than to trade it in or sell it (yet). If we need more room in the back, just take the "other car".

By the way I am 45 and waited until now to buy a car like this. I've never been one to really care much about what others think of my personal choices. I ride motorcycles. I shoot guns. I wear offensive tee-shirts. I do whatever I want. This is MURICA, damn it! That's how we roll.

You can easily fix the stock radio issues by dropping about $1K-1.5K for a professional to do the work, or about $500-700 if you do it yourself. The problem is the stock amp in the back is junk, as well as the crossovers and the tweeter. The OEM + 400 is a nice solution (very clean) and just swap out the component speakers and amp for the price above (and add some sound deadening in the doors and trunk) and the audio will be much better.

[e_ticket]

Originally Posted by thill

You can easily fix the stock radio issues by dropping about $1K-1.5K for a professional to do the work, or about $500-700 if you do it yourself. The problem is the stock amp in the back is junk, as well as the crossovers and the tweeter. The OEM + 400 is a nice solution (very clean) and just swap out the component speakers and amp for the price above (and add some sound deadening in the doors and trunk) and the audio will be much better.

Tks thill. To be honest, I have not given it a lot of thought (yet). I have heard the OEM sub woofer improves the sound, not only obviously because of the added bass, but also the crossover.

Then I've heard the OEM Navi is good with a DSP.

Then I've read, if you go aftermarket HU, you don't need a DSP because it's built-in. I don't know much about mobile audio, but I know if I want more robust sound, there are options. Options are good.