BRZ after Cayman S and M3... is it a downgrade? NOW WITH VIDEO!

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ballsy

$50K? Maybe if you tick every option. Realistically equipped, the difference is more like $40K-$45K. Still a lot, for sure.

Not if you buy the S. also, put Xenons, Satnav and heated sports seats into your base Cayman and you get a difference of between $45K and $50K delivered. And forget negotiating a discount, those Porsche dealers will keep a car for over a year rather than discount it. Makes the diamond trade look like a free market.

In Canada we pay through the nose for the name. Compare basic cars and the base FRS is closer to one third the cost of a base stripper Cayman, if such a beast ever gets to Canada. That means you can buy it, drive it for three years and throw it away and still come out ahead of buying the Porsche.

As for delivering the driving experience the FRS/BRZ delivers and is quieter and smoother riding. Bonus: you can use 100% of the capabilities of the BRZ on your drive to work. Not so the Cayman. This is close to a no brainer purchase decision.

[saeyedoc]

I've had my Cayman S for about two years, leased it for 3, so starting to consider my next move. Except for the once or twice a year I've taken it to the track, I really can't use all the horsepower of the S. I've considered stepping down to the base Cayman so I can at least wring it out more without hitting triple digit speeds.
Now I'm thinking the BRZ may be a good, cost effective alternative. I know the quality won't be at the Porsche level, but neither will the cost, maintenance, insurance rates and expensive tire replacements.
Hopefully there will be a higher performance version next year when I'm ready to make the move.
Am I crazy?

[Admiral Ballsy]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Not if you buy the S.

Actually I was talking about the S...but I missed the Canadian part.

I shopped the Boxster/Cayman last fall, S models, and I was looking at ~$72K for what I wanted. So a difference of $44K (USD) from my BRZ (but I wasn't cross-shopping those two; I was comparing the Porsches and the Corvette).

[Captain Insano]

That's nearly 3x more (72/3 = 24). Definitely not 3x better in my opinion, but that's pretty subjective by buyer.

[thill]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

I've had my Cayman S for about two years, leased it for 3, so starting to consider my next move. Except for the once or twice a year I've taken it to the track, I really can't use all the horsepower of the S. I've considered stepping down to the base Cayman so I can at least wring it out more without hitting triple digit speeds.
Now I'm thinking the BRZ may be a good, cost effective alternative. I know the quality won't be at the Porsche level, but neither will the cost, maintenance, insurance rates and expensive tire replacements.
Hopefully there will be a higher performance version next year when I'm ready to make the move.
Am I crazy?

The BRZ is a more practical car as a daily driver. So no, you are not crazy. The base Cayman may make sense as well. When I say I want a Cayman, I don't mean as a daily driver. It would be used and it would be a third car when I really want more from a car. The BRZ is a blast, but I have owned much more powerful cars in the past and I miss the power from time to time. I also think as good as the BRZ is in terms of handling, steering, driver feel, etc. The Cayman is just better. As it should be since it costs so much more.

My advice would be to drive an FR-S/BRZ, if you have not already, and see what you think.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

I've had my Cayman S for about two years, leased it for 3, so starting to consider my next move. Except for the once or twice a year I've taken it to the track, I really can't use all the horsepower of the S. I've considered stepping down to the base Cayman so I can at least wring it out more without hitting triple digit speeds.
Now I'm thinking the BRZ may be a good, cost effective alternative. I know the quality won't be at the Porsche level, but neither will the cost, maintenance, insurance rates and expensive tire replacements.
Hopefully there will be a higher performance version next year when I'm ready to make the move.
Am I crazy?

Personally I think you are crazy (in a respectable way ). Yes the steering & handling are very very similar but that's where it ends. You can't use all the horsepower of the S? I've test driven 4-5 on public roads and I tach'ed them all out, lawfully and unlawfully. Nothing obscene about redlining the first 2 gears, especially if you're hitting the interstate at all. By some of the logic applied on this page I'm not using all of the BRZ's performance because I don't hit 100 mph on a daily basis. You can reach the Cayman's handling limits on a public road - I've done it. It felt great and was very controllable. In fact I did it with a salesman riding shotgun. You should have seen the guy's grin at the time. If I recall correctly he was giggling a bit before the test drove ended.

For me, if I got a Cayman S, it would be my DD. Considering I DD'ed an S2000 for 4 years its far from a bad DD IMO. It may not have the gas mileage of the BRZ (but it's still quite good for the performance it offers - better than an S2000) or the fold down rear seats either, but it has two very generously sized trunks that can swallow an impressive amount of items.

For me (and I think the majority on this forum that are considering this car) I am only considering used Cayman S's. And not the new ones either - 987 (hydraulic steering FTW). I think the new ones are stunning, but I like the look of the old ones as well. And they're making it too big and luxurious (isolated IMO). And its ridiculous for a 3,000lb sports care to look funny with anything less than 19" wheels.

All things considered, if you buy a used Cayman S for around 30-35k over a 26-29k new FRZ the overall cost is not that different. The big equalizer here is depreciation. The Cayman S won't lose much additional value, so 5-8k (as long as you take care of her) whereas the FRZ is brand new and will lose a lot of its value over time, probably 15k or more over 5 yrs (really depends on if sales stay at its current level. Also keep in mind that a year's worth of Cayman S sales equals one month of FRZ sales (statistic pulled out of ass..but educated) so that helps maintain that car's value as well.

I respect all opinions here. And this is mine

[saeyedoc]

Yeah, I daily drive my Cayman. Unfortunately, most of the time it's in traffic, with occasional open road where I can get up to 80. The roads are heavily patrolled and even with a radar detector, I try not to go much over that.
Where the fun begins is when we do drives in the hill country, there are some incredible roads and it's a blast maxing out in the lower gears.
As long as I can accelerate enough to pass when needed, I really spend very little time where I can take advantage of the Cayman's capabilities.
As a DD is actually pretty good, I get 21mpg even in traffic and between the two boots, there's enough room for grocery shopping.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

I've had my Cayman S for about two years, leased it for 3, so starting to consider my next move. Except for the once or twice a year I've taken it to the track, I really can't use all the horsepower of the S. I've considered stepping down to the base Cayman so I can at least wring it out more without hitting triple digit speeds.
Now I'm thinking the BRZ may be a good, cost effective alternative. I know the quality won't be at the Porsche level, but neither will the cost, maintenance, insurance rates and expensive tire replacements.
Hopefully there will be a higher performance version next year when I'm ready to make the move.
Am I crazy?

Hey man, weren't you a planet-9 member? I've still got my spyder, and I got a BRZ to use as a DD since the spyder isn't nearly as practical as a cayman S for daily use. The BRZ is great and makes a fantastic daily driver and fun track car, but it's no 987.2. 987.2 is better in every aspect except for the steering wheel size, IMO. If you're going to stick with one car, I'd stick with the Cayman.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

You can't use all the horsepower of the S?

Yeah, I have to roll my eyes everytime I hear statements like this. It's definitely from too much kool-aide flowing. Let's be real here. The power from a Cayman S not astronomical by any stretch of the imagination. 320-330hp is nothing to brag about these days.

[WolfpackS2k]

Exactly. It's not like we're talking about a 505hp Corvette Z06 that hits 70 mph in first gear.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Hey man, weren't you a planet-9 member? I've still got my spyder, and I got a BRZ to use as a DD since the spyder isn't nearly as practical as a cayman S for daily use. The BRZ is great and makes a fantastic daily driver and fun track car, but it's no 987.2. 987.2 is better in every aspect except for the steering wheel size, IMO. If you're going to stick with one car, I'd stick with the Cayman.


Yeah, I have to roll my eyes everytime I hear statements like this. It's definitely from too much kool-aide flowing. Let's be real here. The power from a Cayman S not astronomical by any stretch of the imagination. 320-330hp is nothing to brag about these days.

Yeah, I'm on Planet 9.
I'm just over worrying about 0-60, 1/4 mile times, who's the fastest, etc. I like the feeling of acceleration as much as the next guy. I've got the M3 if I want to feel that rush, but for daily driving, I can't utilize it much.
The Cayman would benefit from more power, but the amount of time I could use it is so small. Sometimes it's more fun to be able to wring an engine out without having to worry about getting a reckless driving ticket.
Now if I was still living in MT when they had no speed limit....

[thill]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

Yeah, I'm on Planet 9.
I'm just over worrying about 0-60, 1/4 mile times, who's the fastest, etc. I like the feeling of acceleration as much as the next guy. I've got the M3 if I want to feel that rush, but for daily driving, I can't utilize it much.
The Cayman would benefit from more power, but the amount of time I could use it is so small. Sometimes it's more fun to be able to wring an engine out without having to worry about getting a reckless driving ticket.
Now if I was still living in MT when they had no speed limit....

You actually sound like a perfect candidate for a FRZ.. Especially if you keep the M3.

I am coming from a much faster car as well, and I won't lie to you, I do sometimes miss the torque especially... But 90% of the time I don't and you can always add power. And the MPG in these cars is amazing. Even if I drive it hard I can get closed to 26MPG in about 80% city driving.

Crazy.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

Yeah, I'm on Planet 9.
I'm just over worrying about 0-60, 1/4 mile times, who's the fastest, etc. I like the feeling of acceleration as much as the next guy. I've got the M3 if I want to feel that rush, but for daily driving, I can't utilize it much.
The Cayman would benefit from more power, but the amount of time I could use it is so small. Sometimes it's more fun to be able to wring an engine out without having to worry about getting a reckless driving ticket.
Now if I was still living in MT when they had no speed limit....

If you've already got an M3, then a BRZ may fit the bill. The lack of power in the BRZ is not a problem for me when it comes to street use. It is noticeable at the track, but the driving dynamics of the car are so good, you won't really care unless you're out to win a DE. Personally, I'd keep the cayman, sell the M3, and get a BRZ for a DD, but obviously I'm biased.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

If you've already got an M3, then a BRZ may fit the bill. The lack of power in the BRZ is not a problem for me when it comes to street use. It is noticeable at the track, but the driving dynamics of the car are so good, you won't really care unless you're out to win a DE. Personally, I'd keep the cayman, sell the M3, and get a BRZ for a DD, but obviously I'm biased.

I need one car with seating for 4 (the M3 is a sedan), the Cayman is leased and buying it out of lease is stupid in TX, we have to pay tax again.
I'm keeping the M3 for a while, last of the NA M cars from BMW.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

If you've already got an M3, then a BRZ may fit the bill. The lack of power in the BRZ is not a problem for me when it comes to street use. It is noticeable at the track, but the driving dynamics of the car are so good, you won't really care unless you're out to win a DE. Personally, I'd keep the cayman, sell the M3, and get a BRZ for a DD, but obviously I'm biased.

I think my problem is I'm too much of a speed freak. When I'm at a track event I want to really haul ass through the turns AND straights. 125mph+ please.

When I go alpine skiing in the wintertime I routinely top 60 mph when going down the mountain on my skis