FRS/BRZ vs. Cobalt SS

[enwave]

I agree that the '09/'10 turbo version has some major improvements over the previous years, and I also agree that the turbo version is considerably snappier and doesn't suffer from anything like the torque dip.

I also despise the lack of a LSD, and FWD, and a terrible interior with terrible comfort, overall a cheaply built vehicle.

If we're talking purely the turbo version, then great. You're right, it is faster. But even with the improved performance and improved handling, it still won't be a competitive experience to the BRZ.

Also, I believe over in the FI forums someone spent about $500(?) on FA20Club's cheapest turbo and got the BRZ up to around 250-260hp with relatively minimal additional mods. Not a bad gig if we're talking mods under $700.

[CudaJoe]

Originally Posted by enwave

I agree that the '09/'10 turbo version has some major improvements over the previous years, and I also agree that the turbo version is considerably snappier and doesn't suffer from anything like the torque dip.

I also despise the lack of a LSD, and FWD, and a terrible interior with terrible comfort, overall a cheaply built vehicle.

If we're talking purely the turbo version, then great. You're right, it is faster. But even with the improved performance and improved handling, it still won't be a competitive experience to the BRZ.

Also, I believe over in the FI forums someone spent about $500(?) on FA20Club's cheapest turbo and got the BRZ up to around 250-260hp with relatively minimal additional mods. Not a bad gig if we're talking mods under $700.

Yeah thats not bad, what kinda turbo? Definately a used one im guessing? Also how'd he get the charged air into the intake manifold? Did he fabricate a turbo manifold and charge piping? Or was there a straight swap (with another subbie)> or did $500 include everything he needed to get the turbo running? Intercooled? Oil fed turbo, or water and oil? Wastegate? BOV? tuned it himself? im assuming stock injectors limited his gains to 260 hp

I think there's more cost behind that then your letting on.

G85 is the gm code for Limit Slip differential on the cobalt. I have it.

[enwave]

There were definitely some mods accompanying it to get it rolling, and yes I believe it was used. Obviously that situation was very unique and not easily replicated by many people.

I don't even remember if it was on this forum that the guy pulled it off, but he ended up getting a complementary tune from the place that installed it, etc and ended with total costs around $900 iirc.

Trust me, I really do appreciate the Cobalt SS, as much as I bash it in this discussion. It is a great vehicle for the money, and very fun to drive. But to me, the twins' x-factors, immeasurables, and handling outweigh the positives that more power gives you in the Cobalt. The throttle response is faster, no boost lag, the feedback from the road is better, the steering and handling are tighter, and the low center of gravity and RWD are far more fun than an extra 80hp (IMO). Granted, when I drove it, I didn't get a whole lot of chance to push it, but I'd take the twins in a heartbeat and could be competitive for a pretty cheap price.

[enwave]

If all you care about is going faster, the Cobalt SS will give you that, and do it well. The twins will win in just about every other category.

[STV3]

Originally Posted by CudaJoe

Yep exactly like that.

The disadvantage for FWD is definately traction.. anything after 300whp requires traction mods like crazy to even stay competitive.

Thats where you other guys can talk about how much money we've thrown at our FWD crapboxes just to keep up.

Tell me about it. I have an upgraded turbo on mine and I am making in the low 400s for hp/tq. I don't get full traction until 4th gear or around 90mph and I have coilovers, solid motor mounts, full poly suspension bushings, and 225/45/17 Michelin pilot super sports on it.

[STV3]

Originally Posted by enwave

There were definitely some mods accompanying it to get it rolling, and yes I believe it was used. Obviously that situation was very unique and not easily replicated by many people.

I don't even remember if it was on this forum that the guy pulled it off, but he ended up getting a complementary tune from the place that installed it, etc and ended with total costs around $900 iirc.

Trust me, I really do appreciate the Cobalt SS, as much as I bash it in this discussion. It is a great vehicle for the money, and very fun to drive. But to me, the twins' x-factors, immeasurables, and handling outweigh the positives that more power gives you in the Cobalt. The throttle response is faster, no boost lag, the feedback from the road is better, the steering and handling are tighter, and the low center of gravity and RWD are far more fun than an extra 80hp (IMO). Granted, when I drove it, I didn't get a whole lot of chance to push it, but I'd take the twins in a heartbeat and could be competitive for a pretty cheap price.

I definitely agree with the bolded statement.

My Neon has been neglected because of the fun factor you get from driving these cars. But when I get on a highway and drop a gear and hit the go pedal and I dont do anywhere I go home and take the SRT out lol

[Bignicky1]

LOLOLOL cobalts takes dumps on frs/brz.... And okay the twins are good on the track but lets be real most of you guys are not tracking the cars or even that well of a driver to actually use the car to full potential .... and yes i own a cobalt but looking to get out of it for a brz

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by enwave

There were definitely some mods accompanying it to get it rolling, and yes I believe it was used. Obviously that situation was very unique and not easily replicated by many people.

I don't even remember if it was on this forum that the guy pulled it off, but he ended up getting a complementary tune from the place that installed it, etc and ended with total costs around $900 iirc.

Trust me, I really do appreciate the Cobalt SS, as much as I bash it in this discussion. It is a great vehicle for the money, and very fun to drive. But to me, the twins' x-factors, immeasurables, and handling outweigh the positives that more power gives you in the Cobalt. The throttle response is faster, no boost lag, the feedback from the road is better, the steering and handling are tighter, and the low center of gravity and RWD are far more fun than an extra 80hp (IMO). Granted, when I drove it, I didn't get a whole lot of chance to push it, but I'd take the twins in a heartbeat and could be competitive for a pretty cheap price.

please find me the thread or link or any info on whoever made 260hp for $900

[CudaJoe]

Okay, I will let you in on a secret.

You know why I got the car I did? It was $22,000 in 09' and I needed something with decent gas mileage but I wasnt ready to get out of the quick car scene. I wanted something with 4 doors cause I came from a 2-door and 4 doors really helps when your getting groceries and toting around the Mrs.

Im 28, im married, I have a house, and im probably going to have a kid in the near future, maybe two. That X-factor will never supplement my needs and for the time being my for daily driving and sometimes coming across someone who hasnt got a clue and wants to play will not persuade me to get an FRS. In fact, I will probably sell the car I have in a year or two and pick up an SUV and join the ranks of many other full time blue collar dudes that can't afford buying a car over 30k.

But what I will have are dedicated car enthusiast friends who push the bounds and give me rides in their car which will fill that void when the time comes. Much like that black Rx-7 in the background of one of my photos. LS1 swapped.





Supras around 590ish whp, single turbo swapped. With friends like this, I know my car is nothing special. The saying goes, "Theres always somebody faster."

Only a small percent of you that actually are on this forum are ever going to go the supercharged/turbo route anyway so that X-factor may never amount to anything.

[enwave]

Originally Posted by fatoni

please find me the thread or link or any info on whoever made 260hp for $900

I'll try to find it after work. It was mostly used stuff and a shop that wanted the install for experience working on the FA20. Fairly low PSI, and friendly dyno temps.

I've made an additional 20-24hp on a Unichip map and drop-in filter alone. $190 total (Unichip was used) My results were pretty good though.

[CudaJoe]

Originally Posted by STV3

Tell me about it. I have an upgraded turbo on mine and I am making in the low 400s for hp/tq. I don't get full traction until 4th gear or around 90mph and I have coilovers, solid motor mounts, full poly suspension bushings, and 225/45/17 Michelin pilot super sports on it.

Sounds like you need super wide tires on the front haha. something like 255 or 265 should help. But they cost monies

I have DWS continental all seasons and they spin through 1st and 2nd and partial third gear lol. 2nd gear tops at about 60mph for me so Id say I spin to maybe 50mph

[enwave]

Originally Posted by CudaJoe

Okay, I will let you in on a secret.

You know why I got the car I did? It was $22,000 in 09' and I needed something with decent gas mileage but I wasnt ready to get out of the quick car scene. I wanted something with 4 doors cause I came from a 2-door and 4 doors really helps when your getting groceries and toting around the Mrs.

Im 28, im married, I have a house, and im probably going to have a kid in the near future, maybe two. That X-factor will never supplement my needs and for the time being my for daily driving and sometimes coming across someone who hasnt got a clue and wants to play will not persuade me to get an FRS. In fact, I will probably sell the car I have in a year or two and pick up an SUV and join the ranks of many other full time blue collar dudes that can't afford buying a car over 30k.

But what I will have are dedicated car enthusiast friends who push the bounds and give me rides in their car which will fill that void when the time comes. Much like that black Rx-7 in the background of one of my photos. LS1 swapped.





Supras around 590ish whp, single turbo swapped. With friends like this, I know my car is nothing special. The saying goes, "Theres always somebody faster."

Only a small percent of you that actually are on this forum are ever going to go the supercharged/turbo route anyway so that X-factor may never amount to anything.

And it is a brilliant car for that situation, very similar to my purchase goals for a BRZ. Only I wanted fun, not necessarily fast. We are in the same boat, just looking for different things I think.

[STV3]

Originally Posted by CudaJoe

Sounds like you need super wide tires on the front haha. something like 255 or 265 should help. But they cost monies

I have DWS continental all seasons and they spin through 1st and 2nd and partial third gear lol. 2nd gear tops at about 60mph for me so Id say I spin to maybe 50mph

Yeah generally if its mid 80 degree weather or warmer I can get 3rd gear to hook due to turbo cars not liking hot air and the ground being warmer. I will eventually just pick up some drag slicks for the track days and see what times I can put down.

[STV3]

Originally Posted by enwave

And it is a brilliant car for that situation, very similar to my purchase goals for a BRZ. Only I wanted fun, not necessarily fast. We are in the same boat, just looking for different things I think.

Yeah I picked up my FRS for a fun daily driver that I wont void the warranty on lol and its been exactly that. It really is an awesome, purpose built little car.