Ready for Heel Toe Action

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by whaap

I'm not sure I can but I'll try. If you're in any gear and want to down shift, go ahead and push the clutch in and with your right hand shift down a gear. Now at the same time you start to release the clutch use your right foot to bring the rpm's up to where they will want to be when the transmission engages in the new gear. If you didn't use the throttle and just released the clutch your car would lurch and let's say the rpm's would jump up from 2000 rpms to 3500 rpms. If you had the tach reading 3500 rpms the split second your clutch engaged it would not cause any unnecessary wear on your clutch, there would be no lurching and the down shift would be as smooth as silk.

I think that's the best I can break it down for you.

That's what you do when you blip the throttle though. I don't see how anything you said is any different from the normal technique (though you probably want to hit the gas earlier than when you start to release the clutch unless you shift really slowly).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by chrisl

That's what you do when you blip the throttle though. I don't see how anything you said is any different from the normal technique (though you probably want to hit the gas earlier than when you start to release the clutch unless you shift really slowly).

Originally Posted by FnFast

I sort of lost you man... Can you explain this differently?

A "blip" implies that there is very little control, that you're just stabbing at the throttle hoping that the revs land where you want when you engage the clutch.

It's just a different way of thinking about the operation you're performing, speed isn't the goal, accuracy is.

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by chrisl

That's what you do when you blip the throttle though. I don't see how anything you said is any different from the normal technique (though you probably want to hit the gas earlier than when you start to release the clutch unless you shift really slowly).

yea i think he just confused the word blip.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Chad

I would say this is awesome advice. I have been driving stick for about 6 years now and in the past couple years I've been practicing rev matching and now do it all the time, however I have not had the chance to do a whole lot of heel-toe mainly cause I haven't hit the track, but that's my next step.

I practice heel-toe everyday on my commute. Not hitting the track isn't an excuse; there's bound to be situations in real life where it pays to know this technique.

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I practice heel-toe everyday on my commute. Not hitting the track isn't an excuse; there's bound to be situations in real life where it pays to know this technique.

not really. Rev matching is more than enough for every day driving. Hell even through mountain roads i barely heel and toed just because i would brake+rev match quick enough and smooth enough that most of the time i wouldn't need to heel and toe.

[FnFast]

I get it now. Well im still learning to "rev match" but I do want to improve my driving skills. You never know when you have to race away from Chuck Norris or something.

[whaap]

Originally Posted by chrisl

That's what you do when you blip the throttle though. I don't see how anything you said is any different from the normal technique (though you probably want to hit the gas earlier than when you start to release the clutch unless you shift really slowly).

No it's not. Post #30 does a good job of explaining the difference.

[Grishbok]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

not really. Rev matching is more than enough for every day driving. Hell even through mountain roads i barely heel and toed just because i would brake+rev match quick enough and smooth enough that most of the time i wouldn't need to heel and toe.

this makes no sense... like.. at all.

Heel/toe technique was developed to save time. On the track, the car needs to be accelerating or decelerating and nothing inbetween. When you don't heel/toe, you spend the time you would have saved in a neutral state (neither accelerating nor braking). Heel/toe is done anytime you need to brake for a turn and need to be in a different gear. Its used every day, all over the street. I dont understand what you mean by brake and rev match quick enough, its impossible to move your right foot from the brake, to the gas pedal faster than a heel/toe. if it was, thered be no reason to learn heel/toe.

The left foot brake technique was also developed to save time, instead of having to move your right foot over, you keep it on the gas and use left foot to modulate the brake. It enables more precise control and faster transition from braking to accelerating. Used mostly in rally and rally-x.

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by Grishbok

this makes no sense... like.. at all.

Heel/toe technique was developed to save time. On the track, the car needs to be accelerating or decelerating and nothing inbetween. When you don't heel/toe, you spend the time you would have saved in a neutral state (neither accelerating nor braking). Heel/toe is done anytime you need to brake for a turn and need to be in a different gear. Its used every day, all over the street. I dont understand what you mean by brake and rev match quick enough, its impossible to move your right foot from the brake, to the gas pedal faster than a heel/toe. if it was, thered be no reason to learn heel/toe.

The left foot brake technique was also developed to save time, instead of having to move your right foot over, you keep it on the gas and use left foot to modulate the brake. It enables more precise control and faster transition from braking to accelerating. Used mostly in rally and rally-x.

I think you mistook my wording. For every day driving ie commuting heel and toe is not needed. You can if you want, but imo there's no point. When i mean i can brake+rev match quick enough ill give an example. Lets say you're approaching a corner in 3rd gear and need to downshift to 2nd for a hairpin. For the heel and toe technique, you approach, brake, clutch downshift+blip and be done all within a second or less. When im talking about just braking and rev matching i would approach the corner the same, brake a bit harder, let off the brake, rev match within a second or less and be set for the corner. You only lose maybe a half second if that. Now for the track, or autox if the course is large enough yea i would heel and toe just because that's a timed event, but for mountain roads i generally do what i feel like. Some times i would heel and toe and others i would just rev match.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

i would approach the corner the same, brake a bit harder, let off the brake, rev match within a second or less and be set for the corner.

This is the way I do it too, for the most part.

[Grishbok]

Well thats the difference in dedication then. I practiced every single time i was behind the wheel, still do, though my racing career is pretty much over for now. Practice every single time, the times you arent using proper technique is just a chance youve deprived yourself to improve.

[LeeMaster]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

I think you mistook my wording. For every day driving ie commuting heel and toe is not needed. You can if you want, but imo there's no point.

Today while making a right turn exit, I had a big ass truck in my ass, so I had to heel-toe rev match in case that fu*ker comes close to rear ending me so I have immediate power to get away. Sometimes, you just have to do it and it's good to know how to do it in case something happens so you wont be in neutral or in a low rpm gear when it happens..

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by Grishbok

Well thats the difference in dedication then. I practiced every single time i was behind the wheel, still do, though my racing career is pretty much over for now. Practice every single time, the times you arent using proper technique is just a chance youve deprived yourself to improve.

I wouldn't say dedication. Im 100% comfortable with both techniques, and can do both of them. It's just switching it up once in a while. Also i wouldn't say rev matching isn't a proper technique, because you're still doing the motion but with 1 extra step. In a way, its more of a practice to faster your self imo.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Grishbok

Well thats the difference in dedication then. I practiced every single time i was behind the wheel, still do, though my racing career is pretty much over for now. Practice every single time, the times you arent using proper technique is just a chance youve deprived yourself to improve.

My racing career does not exist outside of Forza 4. Also, I've never owned a fast car, so never have been motivated to learn to heel toe. However, you can bet I'll be learning as soon as the break in period is over on my next car. Up until now though, the rev match method I've been using has been plenty of fun and I'm extremely good at it now that I've had the same car since '06.