I give up

[wparsons]

Even worse, if your insurance company has a no mods policy and you don't tell them about mods, or worse lie about them if asked, and you get into an accident they can drop ALL your coverage (yes, liability too) for non-disclosure leaving you personally open for lawsuits.

[Ben_G]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Even worse, if your insurance company has a no mods policy and you don't tell them about mods, or worse lie about them if asked, and you get into an accident they can drop ALL your coverage (yes, liability too) for non-disclosure leaving you personally open for lawsuits.

THIS is my concern.... =(

I wonder how much it takes to start up an insurance company and self insure?? =)

[YangerD]

What we need in Ontario is public insurance ran by the government. Much like British Columbia with it's ICBC. I know that over in BC, your standard insurance will cover you for $5000 in mods. Now they don't really care about your mods as long as you pass safety and such. They even have extra insurance for bolted on "equipment" over $5000.

[KKaWing]

Originally Posted by YangerD

What we need in Ontario is public insurance ran by the government. Much like British Columbia with it's ICBC. I know that over in BC, your standard insurance will cover you for $5000 in mods. Now they don't really care about your mods as long as you pass safety and such. They even have extra insurance for bolted on "equipment" over $5000.

Problem is the industry grew too large and profitable. Bob Rae tried, but it would mean the lost of too many jobs (tax revenue from both businesses and income taxes probably).

Also, you have people that are against it because their rates go up. They don't want to subsidize the young and the reckless regardless the fact they never paid such high rates when they are young. Nor does the fact age =/= experience since we do have people that started driving after they moved here.

Did I mention that I see far more soccer moms and middle aged suits barreling down the streets, cutting people off in a hurry to go somewhere "important"? Same people that says modded cars are dangerous and young people shouldn't drive =_=;

I just don't like how people are "prosecuted" for something otherwise legal or how they "look" like they would break the law. Scapegoat much?

[Rossman]

Originally Posted by Ben_G

THIS is my concern.... =(

I wonder how much it takes to start up an insurance company and self insure?? =)

I'm always kind of surprised that people don't get together and form a co-operative in these situations, frankly.

Same with how we get gouged by Bell/Rogers... :-/

[KKaWing]

Originally Posted by Rossman

I'm always kind of surprised that people don't get together and form a co-operative in these situations, frankly.

Same with how we get gouged by Bell/Rogers... :-/

There was an attempt for track friendly insurance a few years back. It fizzled out... perhaps people didn't like the increase in premiums and stuck to don't ask don't tell solution or they couldn't find an underwriter I dunno...

As for robellus... you would still have to use their lines. The municipal/provincial/federal government will not grant rights to dig into the utility trench. Look at fiber optic cables... only Bell is building out. They sure as hell won't let you use their telephone poles or trenches without gouging you there.

The other possibility is to do it like the independent ISPs... rent their lines for the last mile. Problem is, they treat you as second class. Missed appointments, E-Mail only contact with a 48 hr. reply period, and generally screw you over tactics. Look at poor TekSavvy these past years. Sure they expanded too fast and their CSRs suck now but Bell (missed installation appts. & Triple dipping on bandwidth costs) and Rogers (0 back end support - 48hr email contact only, forced merging of POIs, & increase in back-end costs) sure is not helping.

In the end, when it comes time to shell out the dough, people just disappear.

[Ben_G]

Originally Posted by KKaWing

There was an attempt for track friendly insurance a few years back. It fizzled out... perhaps people didn't like the increase in premiums and stuck to don't ask don't tell solution or they couldn't find an underwriter I dunno...

As for robellus... you would still have to use their lines. The municipal/provincial/federal government will not grant rights to dig into the utility trench. Look at fiber optic cables... only Bell is building out. They sure as hell won't let you use their telephone poles or trenches without gouging you there.

The other possibility is to do it like the independent ISPs... rent their lines for the last mile. Problem is, they treat you as second class. Missed appointments, E-Mail only contact with a 48 hr. reply period, and generally screw you over tactics. Look at poor TekSavvy these past years. Sure they expanded too fast and their CSRs suck now but Bell (missed installation appts. & Triple dipping on bandwidth costs) and Rogers (0 back end support - 48hr email contact only, forced merging of POIs, & increase in back-end costs) sure is not helping.

In the end, when it comes time to shell out the dough, people just disappear.

Teksavvy CSR has gotten a lot better lately..... and a lot of stuff can be handled through their forum...

As for insurance, I always imagined a model for responsible drivers like this:
Pay a reasonable (read: competitive initial premium)
However, premiums go up VERY quickly if you have two or more claims/offenses. (faster than 'normal' insurance).
Although this will dissuade folks who are repeat offenders, it will give more responsible drivers an option to be legal and modded at the same time.

[KKaWing]

Originally Posted by Ben_G

Teksavvy CSR has gotten a lot better lately..... and a lot of stuff can be handled through their forum...

As for insurance, I always imagined a model for responsible drivers like this:
Pay a reasonable (read: competitive initial premium)
However, premiums go up VERY quickly if you have two or more claims/offenses. (faster than 'normal' insurance).
Although this will dissuade folks who are repeat offenders, it will give more responsible drivers an option to be legal and modded at the same time.

Playing devil's advocate here (I agree with you but...). It's too late for the insurance companies to raise rates after some fool street races, loses control and crashes into a bus stop full of people. The payouts would be enormous. They are private corporations (not that it makes it right) and they're in this for money. By the time the "first" accident happens, they already lost money they would never recoup.

I would love for them to insure everything that is by definition, road legal, with the government enforcing it. Mandatory insurance right? Not illegal right? Just pay out of pocket (fair right?) to appraise the car for workmanship and cost for claims purposes... (nice dream isn't it?)

[YangerD]

Everyone in Ontario complains about how high the auto insurance is anyways. I don't get why can't this be the next election debate and such. Bring in public auto insurance like BC. Not that it's the greatest but atleast the rates won't keep going up with no control.

[KKaWing]

I hate to bring in politics but... don't vote conservatives then. Their mission at the core is to privatize everything.

[YangerD]

Originally Posted by KKaWing

I hate to bring in politics but... don't vote conservatives then. Their mission at the core is to privatize everything.

I hate politics too lol, but I really think government should step in with auto insurance.

[wparsons]

There are mod and track friendly insurance companies out there, you just have to dig. Look into CASC/OTA to see who they use for events, I'm 99% sure the same company is fine with people tracking their cars. They won't cover damages done on a track, but they also won't cut off your street coverage for being on a track.

Most of the reason rates are so ridiculous in Ontario is because of fraud. Insurance companies are a business, and if they have to keep paying more money out, they need to take more in to balance things out.

I know a few people that have been sued after an accident by someone that wasn't even at the scene of the accident claiming they were in the car, injured and haven't been able to work for 6 months. Most cases get tossed out, but if the amount being sued for is less than the cost of what it will take for the insurance company to fight it in court they'll just pay out and get it over with. Do that a few hundred times a year and it gets expensive.

[bruce]

i am an ins broker and the core of the problem is the accident benefits. if we had rules like quebec there would be no coverage for soft tissue injuries. 'if you cant see it , it aint there.' so many people claim for sore backs when they should just take their bodies to a gym. is Saskatchewan the govt owns the rehab clinics thus no one is injured! also in Ontario we have the bulk of half the population of Canada in the golden horseshoe. lots of new Canadians come from countries that do not have a long history of car driving, plus the language barrier and fear of driving in snow. I like the bc model as they slap 25% surcharge for each ticket and you pay the govt for your indiscretions whereas here you pay me because you have tickets. its nice I get to live well cause of shitty drivers but I have always believed that if you break an Ontario road rule you should pay the govt. not me.
one other factor is modern caRS are written off so easily because of unibody construction, air bags and crash zones that crumple in non fatal collisions .
on top of that you have collision repair shops , parts and tow truck operators and medical clinics all charging exhorbitaant rates.
good news is the property insurance rates skyrocketing after the storm last week will take some of the attention off the cars rates!!