Expensive light Rims+Expensive light Tires or Suspension+Cheaper Rims+Cheaper Tires?

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by fatoni

a couple things. good tires are heavy tires. if you want to be fast, get good suspension and good tires. wheel weight isnt really objectively important even though it feels cool. buy the stickiest compound you can bear and the suspension to support it.

Yes indeed. People often forget about tire weight as well....

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but changing the wheels and tires aren't going to put a lot of stress on the suspension. They're unsprung weight.

Um, unsprung weight is most important to how the suspension reacts and it's wear, it creates the force that acts on the suspension from the road surface: sprung mass is what really doesn't affect the suspension if the springs and dampers are chosen correctly for vehicle size by the manufacturer. Increasing +8 lbs a corner of unsprung mass is a huge increase and the ride quality will very noticeably suffer (not to mention fuel economy) if nothing else is changed suspension wise. A 2 lb increase or decrease is noticeable in the suspension...

Think of a paddle ball setup...with the much heavier weight of the paddle compared to the weight of the ball. Increase the ball mass more and it will start throwing around the paddle and damaging it more easily...

I'm still running the stock Primacy HP tires but mounted on 3.5 lb lighter Enkei Fujins (17x7.5 +40mm offset)...very noticeable increase in ride quality and how it responds to the road. Not quite as noticeable as the difference in handling from the fuel level being full to going below 1/2 full level though...

There's no need to change the tires from the stock size...if you want better performance go with better tire compounds in the stock size on lightweight 17x7.5 or 17x8 wheels...increase in responsiveness and grip with no increase in tire weight if you choose tires wisely.

[DarkSunrise]

To get the most performance for the least amount of money: sticky tires + stock wheels (reuse)

If you can afford them, add quality coilovers to the list.

[wparsons]

IMO, pass on the Oz wheels and 18's in general. Oz ultraleggeras aren't that light in the big picture of what's out there, and are more expensive.

17x8 RPF1's are 15.6lbs per wheel and cheaper than the ultraleggeras. If you want a light sticky tire look at the Kumho Ecsta XS, they're a good 2lbs less per tire than RS3's, Z2's, Rivals, PSS, etc.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Um, unsprung weight is most important to how the suspension reacts and it's wear, it creates the force that acts on the suspension from the road surface: sprung mass is what really doesn't affect the suspension if the springs and dampers are chosen correctly for vehicle size by the manufacturer. Increasing +8 lbs a corner of unsprung mass is a huge increase and the ride quality will very noticeably suffer (not to mention fuel economy) if nothing else is changed suspension wise. A 2 lb increase or decrease is noticeable in the suspension...

Think of a paddle ball setup...with the much heavier weight of the paddle compared to the weight of the ball. Increase the ball mass more and it will start throwing around the paddle and damaging it more easily...

I'm still running the stock Primacy HP tires but mounted on 3.5 lb lighter Enkei Fujins (17x7.5 +40mm offset)...very noticeable increase in ride quality and how it responds to the road. Not quite as noticeable as the difference in handling from the fuel level being full to going below 1/2 full level though...

There's no need to change the tires from the stock size...if you want better performance go with better tire compounds in the stock size on lightweight 17x7.5 or 17x8 wheels...increase in responsiveness and grip with no increase in tire weight if you choose tires wisely.

And this is why I said someone correct me if I'm wrong. I know that increasing unsprung weight reduces performance, but I suppose I should have clarified that I didn't think that the stock suspension wouldn't be able to handle heavier wheels and tires. As in, +5 lbs at each corner wearing out the factory shocks/springs sooner. Not including changing to a much wider wheel with a low offset that will put more stress on the bearings, or something.

[OnionTou]

When I said cheaper tires, I should have cleared up I didn't mean no-name-brand, ultra cheap ones. It's one thing to splurge on the Yokohamas for track, and another to get the cheapest yokohama in the given size.

The track ones have the stickiest compound while the other ones are more for economy driving (similar to the michelins that come on the car).

Originally Posted by fatoni

good tires are heavy tires.

Really? I thought lightweight tires and a name brand company to back them up were a good choice.

[OnionTou]

Originally Posted by wparsons

IMO, pass on the Oz wheels and 18's in general. Oz ultraleggeras aren't that light in the big picture of what's out there, and are more expensive.

17x8 RPF1's are 15.6lbs per wheel and cheaper than the ultraleggeras. If you want a light sticky tire look at the Kumho Ecsta XS, they're a good 2lbs less per tire than RS3's, Z2's, Rivals, PSS, etc.

I've heard similar suggestions for the OZ brand. But unfortunately selection in Peru is VERY limited. I've been to 3 stores, and all they sell in my size are OZs. and even then, they're not the gold color ones I want.

I'll have to check out the option of importing some on my own.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by OnionTou

When I said cheaper tires, I should have cleared up I didn't mean no-name-brand, ultra cheap ones. It's one thing to splurge on the Yokohamas for track, and another to get the cheapest yokohama in the given size.

The track ones have the stickiest compound while the other ones are more for economy driving (similar to the michelins that come on the car).



Really? I thought lightweight tires and a name brand company to back them up were a good choice.

the point is that performance tires come with stiff sidewalls and that extra stiffness comes with a weight penalty. tire weight is one of the last deciding factors behind compound, stiffness and size. its not something you should be basing your performance purchases on.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by OnionTou

I've heard similar suggestions for the OZ brand. But unfortunately selection in Peru is VERY limited. I've been to 3 stores, and all they sell in my size are OZs. and even then, they're not the gold color ones I want.

I'll have to check out the option of importing some on my own.

I'm sure there would be some vendors on here willing to help you out with wheels.

[Jetscape]

Go with a lightweight Sticky tire. Your stock rims are already lighter than most and it should be fine. Put your money First on Cai , mid pipe, and a tune(Unichip or ecutek). In my own experience ,those three mods offer the best horsepower/$ gain over stock for daily driving. Once you become more proficient in autocross, go for sticky 225 tires sets, headers, catback, retune, and after market break pads. With these mods, your car will NOT feel much different on the street but just really noisy...BUT on the Track , when your reving 5k-7k constantly,you'll be a lot quicker...you'll see it in your time sheets. Cheers...

[typericey]

Originally Posted by fatoni

good tires are heavy tires.

I was looking at getting Bridgestone RE-11A but I noticed it is the heaviest in its class compared to the Advan AD08 and Kumho XS (based on tirerack.com specs).

Also on OEM tire size the RE-11A is 24lbs. while the Primacy HP is only 20lbs. That's almost 2 kilos difference!

I am more or less decided on which lightweight wheel to get but the weight savings I will get on the wheels will be offset by the heavy RE-11As! 😔

[RAYSSPL]

Save your pennies and do everything right in order to reduce compromises

[Aresio]

Originally Posted by OnionTou

Not sure if I should post this thread in suspension or here in wheels...

The GT86 in Peru comes with 16" tires, which don't look as nice as bigger size rims. As background info I bought the car as a toy, I use it on weekends, and whenever I go out after work hours. For everything else I have my minivan (very useful for work, not a nice car to pick up a date... makes them think i wants kids).

I want to do autocross/drifting events, and perhaps a little spirited driving in between. My overall plans for the car are to do tires/rims, suspension, brakes, and exhaust/intake mods. All of this within the course of a year or two, I can't afford all the mods at once.

Yesterday I stopped by a local tire shop to ask around for prices and I discovered that light rims (OZ Ultraleggera) and light tires 225/40R18 Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 or Bridgestone Potenzas S-02, will cost me close to US$5,000. yup 5 freaking grand (that's tax included, all 18% of it). Importing them myself will still cost me somewhere close to that.

What is the weight of this combination of these light weight rims and tires? About 40 pounds.

when compared to the stock (someone correct me if I got my figures wrong):
16" tires and rims about 37 pounds.
17" tires and rims about 40 pounds.

and the suspension is the same for the cars that use 16" and 17" tires.

So I know that the stock suspension is ok to handle the new rims and tires because the weight is the same. and the overall diameter is the same.

I can get cheaper rims and cheaper tires but that means that the overall weight goes up to 48 pounds. and the total price is about US$2000, but with 20% more unsprung mass, it means I probably need to tweak suspension as soon as I install those tires/rims on the car. and coincidentally it costs about $3k to get a kit of that installed .

If I get the fancy tires/rims I'll still get the suspension reworked in a few months, and if i get the cheaper tires/rims+suspension I'll still get the light weight rims/tires down the line.

To get better bang for my buck at the time being, which would you guys suggest?

Maybe I can help you with a few prices:

OZ Ultraleggera: US$ 1900,00. I know an importer. Also, there are some at sale in Av. Canada.

Works Emotion: US$ 2500,00. The store is in Av. Angamos.

Konig Deception: The store is in Av. Canada.

Regarding the tires, you can buy DUNLOP DIrezza 235, 40 R18 for around US$ 200,00 each. Maxxis tires are also very good and less expensive.

I just bought the Works Rims for my GT and the Dunlop tires.

Also, there are some stores that will receive the original rims/tires for around US$600,00, but I recommend you not to sell them if you want to take your car to the track (track days are in La Chutana, almost every saturday).

[autobrz]

i feel ur paying too much attention to weight. if ur very good driver, u would know what u want already.
if ur just novice then ur driving is going to determine your lap times more than any weight savings. 2 lbs isnt going to be noticeable unless if ur world class race car driver. honest opinion. just ask some real racers on e forum. O(∩_∩)O


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