Manual vs Auto MPGs

[Nm86]

Just got back from 1200 mile trip, averaged 35 mpg, cruising between 60and 75. I have manual transmission, and my only mod is a catback exhaust. Also the whoever said the auto is faster, crazy. Mt has shorter gearing and we can launch the car... And launching at 4 grand works pretty dang good.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by 5th 86

For you guys getting 30+mpg, are your cars modded at all or stock? Cause i noticed ehen i put a fee parts on i lost mpg but thats probably cause i like using the extra power and i dont try and save gas at all i just stay above 3000rpm cause i like to be in the power band more. Think i am getting around 22 combined

I'm just over 20,000 miles and have averaged 32.5MPG over that period. Most of it is "suburbia" commuter driving, but I've made no attempt to increase my gas mileage, and I'm frequently above 3K RPM when launching/passing/etc.

I've been very surprised by that actually. I was going to be quite satisfied with mid 20's.

[SpyderDan]

Another thing about the AT that I don't see being discussed is whether it is in sport mode or not.

I've only had my 10 Series AT for a 11 days, and I just tried driving without setting sport mode yesterday for the first time, and I was surprised at how different it is. Shifting is not as aggressive, the rev-match blip is slow (but really smooth), and the throttle-by-wire inputs seem to be getting dramatically smoothed out.

The AT without sport mode doesn't accelerate nearly as well, seems a bit quieter (TRD exhaust and intake), but shifts silky-smooth. This, combined with the taller gearing, seems to make this the econo mode where you should get better fuel economy (at the cost of fun).

Putting the AT in sport mode, on the other hand, makes it feel like a completely different beast. I have to wonder how many who have tried the AT (in manual mode) have missed putting the tranny in sport mode. The throttle response becomes much quicker and feels linear, and the shifts are much quicker (but can be abrupt). I get nice trailing-throttle pops in the exhaust (that don't happen in econo mode).

My fuel economy with sport mode hasn't been so great, but I've been enjoying the car too much to worry about it. The first tank, I only averaged 16 mpg according to the computer. I've filled up twice since then, and got my average up to around 24 mpg. I've always been in the habit of resetting the trip meter at fill ups on my cars, and doing the math in my head, and the computer seems pretty spot-on so far.

I've driven nothing but MT sports cars for more than 20 years, and I am very pleased with the AT in the FR-S. I am still finding it quite novel, and having fun trying to unlearn my habits from a lifetime of MT experience to get the most out of it.

Personally, I find it liberating to have the ability to effortlessly command a shift that is perfect, every time, on a whim, with just a flick of the wrist. I find myself shifting more often than I would with a MT, and downshifting into 1st in situations where I never would in a MT. Driving feels less physical in the footwork department, but more cerebral and exacting in timing. I find it easier to push in a corner with confidence, knowing that I can command a perfect downshift for my exit 10 times out of 10 exactly when I want to without upsetting the car. I'm plenty good with MT, and could probably heel-toe that downshift just as well 8 times out of 10, but I would also be spending a chunk of my concentration and physical coordination (which isn't getting any better with age) to do it.

I left my street racing days behind coming out of my teens decades ago. I couldn't care less what kind of 0-60 times I'm getting. As far as launching, though, I don't think the AT (at least in sport mode) is actually anything resembling a slouch. Sure, you aren't going to be spinning wheels doing a smoking-tire burnout, but since when has any of that been a good thing for launching anyway? The AT in sport mode gets you a nice smooth launch, perfect every time, and the upshifts are as quick as 99% of us are ever going to be with a MT.

As far as the paddle shifters, they are great for freeway driving. On the streets, at lower speeds, and with lots of 90 degree turns, the shift knob is your best friend, and this is where the AT feels the most like an MT. Take a corner with a little speed in 2nd, and drop to 1st for your exit landing up in the power band and let her rip. The computer is ignoring your throttle input during the shift, giving you the opportunity to put the throttle where you want it ahead of time, and the computer transitions to your throttle position as fast as is likely possible. Row through the gears, effortlessly staying in the power band. What torque dip?

I really think the opposition I see on this forum to the AT is misguided, and often ignorant. There is plenty of fun to be had, just a little different fun. The performance is there, in sport mode, but it took some time to figure it out and adjust to it. If you only took it for a short test drive at a dealer, and didn't switch it to sport mode, I can see where an initial negative opinion could come about. Likewise, if you were trying the paddle shifters and not the knob on city streets, I can see how it wouldn't feel as good. To me, that is the driver failing to get the best out of the car, not the fault of the car.

[Quentin]

I drove my coworker's 6AT FR-S the other day and was surprised how fun it was in sport mode. If it had the same gearing as the 6MT and was the same cost, I'd have a very hard decision to make. Right now, 6MT is my preference, but the AT in full sport is a lot of fun.

[pmdc]

Originally Posted by SpyderDan

Another thing about the AT that I don't see being discussed is whether it is in sport mode or not.

I've only had my 10 Series AT for a 11 days, and I just tried driving without setting sport mode yesterday for the first time, and I was surprised at how different it is. Shifting is not as aggressive, the rev-match blip is slow (but really smooth), and the throttle-by-wire inputs seem to be getting dramatically smoothed out.

The AT without sport mode doesn't accelerate nearly as well, seems a bit quieter (TRD exhaust and intake), but shifts silky-smooth. This, combined with the taller gearing, seems to make this the econo mode where you should get better fuel economy (at the cost of fun).

Putting the AT in sport mode, on the other hand, makes it feel like a completely different beast. I have to wonder how many who have tried the AT (in manual mode) have missed putting the tranny in sport mode. The throttle response becomes much quicker and feels linear, and the shifts are much quicker (but can be abrupt). I get nice trailing-throttle pops in the exhaust (that don't happen in econo mode).

My fuel economy with sport mode hasn't been so great, but I've been enjoying the car too much to worry about it. The first tank, I only averaged 16 mpg according to the computer. I've filled up twice since then, and got my average up to around 24 mpg. I've always been in the habit of resetting the trip meter at fill ups on my cars, and doing the math in my head, and the computer seems pretty spot-on so far.

I've driven nothing but MT sports cars for more than 20 years, and I am very pleased with the AT in the FR-S. I am still finding it quite novel, and having fun trying to unlearn my habits from a lifetime of MT experience to get the most out of it.

Personally, I find it liberating to have the ability to effortlessly command a shift that is perfect, every time, on a whim, with just a flick of the wrist. I find myself shifting more often than I would with a MT, and downshifting into 1st in situations where I never would in a MT. Driving feels less physical in the footwork department, but more cerebral and exacting in timing. I find it easier to push in a corner with confidence, knowing that I can command a perfect downshift for my exit 10 times out of 10 exactly when I want to without upsetting the car. I'm plenty good with MT, and could probably heel-toe that downshift just as well 8 times out of 10, but I would also be spending a chunk of my concentration and physical coordination (which isn't getting any better with age) to do it.

I left my street racing days behind coming out of my teens decades ago. I couldn't care less what kind of 0-60 times I'm getting. As far as launching, though, I don't think the AT (at least in sport mode) is actually anything resembling a slouch. Sure, you aren't going to be spinning wheels doing a smoking-tire burnout, but since when has any of that been a good thing for launching anyway? The AT in sport mode gets you a nice smooth launch, perfect every time, and the upshifts are as quick as 99% of us are ever going to be with a MT.

As far as the paddle shifters, they are great for freeway driving. On the streets, at lower speeds, and with lots of 90 degree turns, the shift knob is your best friend, and this is where the AT feels the most like an MT. Take a corner with a little speed in 2nd, and drop to 1st for your exit landing up in the power band and let her rip. The computer is ignoring your throttle input during the shift, giving you the opportunity to put the throttle where you want it ahead of time, and the computer transitions to your throttle position as fast as is likely possible. Row through the gears, effortlessly staying in the power band. What torque dip?

I really think the opposition I see on this forum to the AT is misguided, and often ignorant. There is plenty of fun to be had, just a little different fun. The performance is there, in sport mode, but it took some time to figure it out and adjust to it. If you only took it for a short test drive at a dealer, and didn't switch it to sport mode, I can see where an initial negative opinion could come about. Likewise, if you were trying the paddle shifters and not the knob on city streets, I can see how it wouldn't feel as good. To me, that is the driver failing to get the best out of the car, not the fault of the car.

You've successfully convinced me not to hate on the 6AT. I still prefer throwing a stick around tho

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by SpyderDan

Another thing about the AT that I don't see being discussed is whether it is in sport mode or not.

I've only had my 10 Series AT for a 11 days, and I just tried driving without setting sport mode yesterday for the first time, and I was surprised at how different it is. Shifting is not as aggressive, the rev-match blip is slow (but really smooth), and the throttle-by-wire inputs seem to be getting dramatically smoothed out.

The AT without sport mode doesn't accelerate nearly as well, seems a bit quieter (TRD exhaust and intake), but shifts silky-smooth. This, combined with the taller gearing, seems to make this the econo mode where you should get better fuel economy (at the cost of fun).

Putting the AT in sport mode, on the other hand, makes it feel like a completely different beast. I have to wonder how many who have tried the AT (in manual mode) have missed putting the tranny in sport mode. The throttle response becomes much quicker and feels linear, and the shifts are much quicker (but can be abrupt). I get nice trailing-throttle pops in the exhaust (that don't happen in econo mode).

My fuel economy with sport mode hasn't been so great, but I've been enjoying the car too much to worry about it. The first tank, I only averaged 16 mpg according to the computer. I've filled up twice since then, and got my average up to around 24 mpg. I've always been in the habit of resetting the trip meter at fill ups on my cars, and doing the math in my head, and the computer seems pretty spot-on so far.

I've driven nothing but MT sports cars for more than 20 years, and I am very pleased with the AT in the FR-S. I am still finding it quite novel, and having fun trying to unlearn my habits from a lifetime of MT experience to get the most out of it.

Personally, I find it liberating to have the ability to effortlessly command a shift that is perfect, every time, on a whim, with just a flick of the wrist. I find myself shifting more often than I would with a MT, and downshifting into 1st in situations where I never would in a MT. Driving feels less physical in the footwork department, but more cerebral and exacting in timing. I find it easier to push in a corner with confidence, knowing that I can command a perfect downshift for my exit 10 times out of 10 exactly when I want to without upsetting the car. I'm plenty good with MT, and could probably heel-toe that downshift just as well 8 times out of 10, but I would also be spending a chunk of my concentration and physical coordination (which isn't getting any better with age) to do it.

I left my street racing days behind coming out of my teens decades ago. I couldn't care less what kind of 0-60 times I'm getting. As far as launching, though, I don't think the AT (at least in sport mode) is actually anything resembling a slouch. Sure, you aren't going to be spinning wheels doing a smoking-tire burnout, but since when has any of that been a good thing for launching anyway? The AT in sport mode gets you a nice smooth launch, perfect every time, and the upshifts are as quick as 99% of us are ever going to be with a MT.

As far as the paddle shifters, they are great for freeway driving. On the streets, at lower speeds, and with lots of 90 degree turns, the shift knob is your best friend, and this is where the AT feels the most like an MT. Take a corner with a little speed in 2nd, and drop to 1st for your exit landing up in the power band and let her rip. The computer is ignoring your throttle input during the shift, giving you the opportunity to put the throttle where you want it ahead of time, and the computer transitions to your throttle position as fast as is likely possible. Row through the gears, effortlessly staying in the power band. What torque dip?

I really think the opposition I see on this forum to the AT is misguided, and often ignorant. There is plenty of fun to be had, just a little different fun. The performance is there, in sport mode, but it took some time to figure it out and adjust to it. If you only took it for a short test drive at a dealer, and didn't switch it to sport mode, I can see where an initial negative opinion could come about. Likewise, if you were trying the paddle shifters and not the knob on city streets, I can see how it wouldn't feel as good. To me, that is the driver failing to get the best out of the car, not the fault of the car.

Quick question. I've made a few posts about my experiences w/ the AT VSC off during a test drive. I was not too impressed tbh. I was not able to downshift once into 1st via the paddles in sport mode, yet you mentioned you were able to. I tried doing the same thing you mentioned dropping to 1st out of a slower corner exit to keep the revs up and it was a no go. Not even when coming to a slow stop, the box held 2nd and dropped to 1st on it's own despite my input.

Any thoughts on the discrepancy?

[SpyderDan]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Quick question. I've made a few posts about my experiences w/ the AT VSC off during a test drive. I was not too impressed tbh. I was not able to downshift once into 1st via the paddles in sport mode, yet you mentioned you were able to. I tried doing the same thing you mentioned dropping to 1st out of a slower corner exit to keep the revs up and it was a no go. Not even when coming to a slow stop, the box held 2nd and dropped to 1st on it's own despite my input.

Any thoughts on the discrepancy?

Sport mode on the tranny is activated by the middle 2 buttons (sport and snow modes) to the rear of the shifter, between the trac off and vsc buttons. On the gauge cluster, you see a "sport" indicator directly left of the vsc sport and trac off indicators. It is independent of the nannies, and independent of turning them off.

Drive also acts differently than manual mode does. You can still use the paddles (but not the shift knob) if desired, but the computer will shift for you if you don't give it input. Sport mode also changes the behavior of drive mode, from what I understand, but I have only used drive mode a few times in bumper-to-bumper traffic so far.

As far as downshifting to 1st, I have done it times too numerous to count, at least in sport mode. The gear indicator on the tach shows up and down arrows next to it, indicating allowable shift inputs. It will not let you downshift when it would result in over-revving, and won't allow upshifts that would stall the motor. It will force a downshift if you let the revs drop to 800, but will just let you bounce off the limiter the other way. No guesswork ever required, letting you concentrate on more fun stuff.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by SpyderDan

Sport mode on the tranny is activated by the middle 2 buttons (sport and snow modes) to the rear of the shifter, between the trac off and vsc buttons. On the gauge cluster, you see a "sport" indicator directly left of the vsc sport and trac off indicators. It is independent of the nannies, and independent of turning them off.

Drive also acts differently than manual mode does. You can still use the paddles (but not the shift knob) if desired, but the computer will shift for you if you don't give it input. Sport mode also changes the behavior of drive mode, from what I understand, but I have only used drive mode a few times in bumper-to-bumper traffic so far.

As far as downshifting to 1st, I have done it times too numerous to count, at least in sport mode. The gear indicator on the tach shows up and down arrows next to it, indicating allowable shift inputs. It will not let you downshift when it would result in over-revving, and won't allow upshifts that would stall the motor. It will force a downshift if you let the revs drop to 800, but will just let you bounce off the limiter the other way. No guesswork ever required, letting you concentrate on more fun stuff.

It was in manual. I have a Legacy At as well and it's the same w/ popping it over to the left. The sales guy said to hit the VSC Sport button so I did that and saw sport and a car logo w/ skids lit up on the dash. So you're saying I need to press VSC and snow simultaneously? Press or hold down?

Sorry for the OT, TIA! I'll have another go, I really want to like the AT. I was hoping for something at least close to the Spyder's SMT.

Edit - Seems from some reading that the stick needs to be in 'D' before using the buttons to get M+Sport. Then you move the stick to 'M'.

[SpyderDan]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

It was in manual. I have a Legacy At as well and it's the same w/ popping it over to the left. The sales guy said to hit the VSC Sport button so I did that and saw sport and a car logo w/ skids lit up on the dash. So you're saying I need to press VSC and snow simultaneously? Press or hold down?

Sorry for the OT, TIA! I'll have another go, I really want to like the AT. I was hoping for something at least close to the Spyder's SMT.

Edit - Seems from some reading that the stick needs to be in 'D' before using the buttons to get M+Sport. Then you move the stick to 'M'.

Other side of the button that also selects snow mode:



My modes of choice so far are to have the Vehicle Stabiliy Control in Sport mode, and the transmission also in Sport mode. When both are on, it looks like this on the gauge cluster:



As you can also see in this picture, the transmission is currently set to "P". You can select either or both sport modes without ever touching the shifter. Regardless of whether you are in "D" or "M", you can push the "Sport" button, and it will cause the transmission to act differently in either position. Of course, you can't switch to "M" without first shifting past "D", but this has no effect on whether the transmission is in Sport mode or not, or whether VSC Sport mode is on (since they are unrelated).

To get this more back on topic, and to get back to where my point was going originally, Sport mode will have at least some effect on fuel economy, and this could be quite dramatic depending on the driver. I'm guessing whatever testing the EPA did on fuel economy with the AT never involved Sport mode. The default mode is the economy mode, with delayed and smoothed out throttle inputs and conservative shifting behavior.

Bottom line, the AT can be awesomely fun in Sport mode, but forget about any advantage over the MT in fuel economy while you're having that fun. The beauty is that you can have the best of both worlds, at the flick of a shift knob and the touch of nearby button.

[Anaxilus]

Thx man! Definitely did not see a second 'sport' light, just VSC sport. Of course the dealer didn't know how to operate it's own car, no surprise. Looking forward to giving it another thrashing next time. Cheers!!