EcuTek vs BRZ-Edit

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by qoncept

It's about time for everyone to understand that there are good and bad professional tuners, and there are good and bad internet tuners. ....

Anyone remember dynoflash... When the Evo VIII first hit the US shores, Big Al was using ecutek to tune and everyone thought he was a tuning god. The negative customer reviews got swept under the rug and his sales were strong. Once EcuFlash was able to read the roms, the community realized just how shitty his tunes were and he became a laughing stock.

EcuTek has it's place when a new platform first comes to market. Look at the Evo X, it was the only option for a while and I tuned a number of people using EcuTek. The minute ecuflash support was in stream, ecutek sales stopped instantly. I converted everyone i had tuned on ecutek to ecuflash.

How many ecutek tunes are sold these days for the 10? Not many at all. Consumers want the best tune for the least money. If there are two tuners in the same town that produce equal quality tunes, the customers will go to the one that charges the least.

As for tuners "protecting" their IP.. whatever, if they are good tuners they don't need to protect anything. And can't we make the same argument for the factory tune? We sure don't seem to care about protecting that IP.

I know EcuTek is trying to offer a product with more platform longevity but until the price point comes down, they will only "have the market" for a particular platform for the first couple of years.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

I know EcuTek is trying to offer a product with more platform longevity but until the price point comes down, they will only "have the market" for a particular platform for the first couple of years.

Plus Subaru for some reason. The bullheadedness blows my mind. An entire market totally brainwashed.

[Dodzilla]

You aren't even making any sense at this point, you may have a valid point to make but it's not coming across in anything you post.

Right now at this very second consumers have the option of purchasing a cable and BRZEdit to both tune their own vehicle AND collaborate with the online community or professional tuners.

People are already eating the cake and you have your head planted firmly in the sand.

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Some people are crying because they want their cake AND eat it. That's not life, grow up and realise it. You can't have all you want.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

@jamesm I think you're trying to apply the environment you live/work in to something unrelated. I find this pretty common with software developers. It's not really relevant.

Your point about a 'locked in' tuner not being around in 10 years is valid. And the answer, tough shit. After ten years you'll probably need a complete re-tune anyway so find someone else. Be realistic.

it's entirely relevant. this isn't my blender, it's my f'in car. i don't want external dependencies on my car.

maybe if i call it something other than an 'external dependency' it won't sound like software talk. how about 'i don't want to be beholden to a single vendor when it comes time that i need to fix my vehicle down the road, i want to be able to do it myself or pay anyone who is qualified to do it'.

this stuff applies outside of the software world. a lot.

and why would i need a complete retune after 10 years? it's an extreme example, but it's just to illustrate a point. a more realistic one would be people who are sitting around waiting for the transient timing fix today. it's because of the lock-in that they're not able to just fix the problem themselves quickly, or pay anyone who knows how to do it. if today were a few years from now and the tuner has since gone out of business, some guys might just be out of luck. that's not cool with most people.

as for the 'who owns the work?' argument, name for me one market or environment in which the guy who puts up the money for work to be done doesn't end up owning the product of the work. there aren't any. this is a special case where vendors want to be paid to perform work, then keep the product of the work and possibly use the information in future products (canned tunes or as a basis for another customer), effectively letting the customers collectively pay them to perform r&d and add value to their own businesses. they're retaining rights to work they were paid by someone else to perform. that is abnormal in any situation.

[qoncept]

Cusco's front sway bar for the WRX was made "inside out" so it bolts to the wrong side of the endlink. The only plausible reason for this is so you have to buy their endlinks instead of being able to use the stock ones. Locked in. I avoid Cusco products like I avoid Ecutek.

[NotSoJDM]

How about the simple fact that a locked file means you are achieving an end result with no way of knowing/verifying the way you got there. Granted some people don't know what they are looking at anyways. But those are typically the people who won't question the ways of our current options.

As a consumer all I know is that you made me power via ECU changes. Not that they were safe changes. Not that they were reliable changes. All I know is they were changes. And they increase my hp/tq output.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Dodzilla

You aren't even making any sense at this point, you may have a valid point to make but it's not coming across in anything you post.

Right now at this very second consumers have the option of purchasing a cable and BRZEdit to both tune their own vehicle AND collaborate with the online community or professional tuners.

People are already eating the cake and you have your head planted firmly in the sand.

I have BRZedit and I tune my own car.

[Dodzilla]

If you're already on the bandwagon why are you trolling?

[Shit Luck]

Originally Posted by NotSoJDM

How about the simple fact that a locked file means you are achieving an end result with no way of knowing/verifying the way you got there. Granted some people don't know what they are looking at anyways. But those are typically the people who won't question the ways of our current options.

As a consumer all I know is that you made me power via ECU changes. Not that they were safe changes. Not that they were reliable changes. All I know is they were changes. And they increase my hp/tq output.

exactly.. just ask the GTR guys who got tuned by a certain ecutek tuner on that made big power till the blocks vented themselves.

[feldy]

as for the 'who owns the work?' argument, name for me one market or environment in which the guy who puts up the money for work to be done doesn't end up owning the product of the work. there aren't any. this is a special case where vendors want to be paid to perform work, then keep the product of the work and possibly use the information in future products (canned tunes or as a basis for another customer), effectively letting the customers collectively pay them to perform r&d and add value to their own businesses. they're retaining rights to work they were paid by someone else to perform. that is abnormal in any situation.[/QUOTE]

Plenty. I work in the video game world and this happens a lot. A plubisher will pay a developer to delvop the game. That doesn't mean the plubisher owns the ip. Point in case my current owner who bought us from Thq this year also bought the rights for metro. They don't own the work nor the ip. They only get to plubish it. Same thing goes for say the war hammer games, lord of the ring games and so on. They own certain rights but they don't own assets code or the ip. Every deal is different.

If you want to tune your car in ten years pay for the pro software to do so. Or spend your own money and time to make such software.

You are buying a tune you know what the deal is before you do so. Why bitch about something that no one is forcing a gun to your head to do so.

This whole open source thing is non sense. I paid 5 grand for a copy of 3dsmax. I don't own it. I can't even resell it with out going to autodesk for a license tranfer. We get a certain sdk to make plugins but we don't get the sorce code for it. And when we have issues we go to them. We put up with it because 3d open source is just not up to to the task of high end production.

Even John carmak who does release such code waits ten years so he can profit as much as possible before giving it out. I'd be damned if I did work for 3 years and 80 million just to give it away for free. I'd feel the same if I did the work for 6 months.

You guys can have everything you are asking for it just cost more money. Deal with it. It's life.

[feldy]

And for the entitled few you spent 25grand on a car that you own. Go complain to the oem that you want there tuning software since you own the car and you have a right to do what ever you please with it. Rofl go ahead and flame away.

[Shit Luck]

Originally Posted by feldy

And for the entitled few you spent 25grand on a car that you own. Go complain to the oem that you want there tuning software since you own the car and you have a right to do what ever you please with it. Rofl go ahead and flame away.

I paid for a car, Subaru and Toyota have yet to show up at my house and tell me what I can cant do with it....
I can tear it down and look at anything I want whenever I want.
A locked tune is just a way to protect shitty tuners from backlash when they screw up and profit off of the generally uninformed automotive masses.

[regal]

The issue is that the ECUTek license and cable costs are so high that it hurts sales of turbo, supercharger kits and cuts into the sales for the tuners themselves.

If the tuner or kit developer does the work, it is only cutting into their sales by forcing the customer to cough up $700 just to load the tune. Its not a sustainable business model.

An open source solution to load tunes will only help tuners and FI kit developers make more sales and those are the folks we want to support, not some middleman who does nothing.

[ft_sjo]

Yeah, EcuTek do nothing. Unicorns pay for their offices, their highly skilled staff and all the other overheads.

CAPITALISM IS EVIL!!!!