Stock In-Tank Fuel Filter Degradation

[reeves]

Yea I wasn't too concerned about the filter, just curious what the startup cause could be. Like people have said, it could just be the switch to summer blend.. higher E85 content in the fuel plus all that stuff about fuel pressure/vapor/cranking enrichment, I'm sure that's a contributing factor.

The fuel filter degradation sounds like an isolated incident on a specific tracked car in very specific conditions. My car runs better than ever on E85 so no way I'm shying away from it now.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by regal

Seems more and more like these cars weren't designed for fuel with ethanol levels we use in the sates. First the crickets no this. Finding an ethanol free pump gas station is completely impractical.

The crickets are caused by a washer exposed to high pressure with too much tolerance. The most likely cause is heat. Mazda had some recalls recently due to HPFP overheating from seasonal variations in fuel.

I had my doubts that ethanol might be to blame but people running pure Gas have seen crickets come back. Crickets usually happen after the engine is warmed up and especially during idle, that marks ethanol off the list since it would chirp all the time if that were the cause.

Originally Posted by jamesm

wrx's may not have issues with it, but plenty of other cars do. some things take a while to show up (o-rings breaking down, lines being eaten up inside, etc).

the fact of the matter is even beyond this filter, no one here knows for sure either way whether it'll effect any part of the fuel system long term. it makes sense to think it will. it's not like toyobaru has any incentive to lie and say it isn't compatible when it is.

these cars just haven't been out long enough for anyone to know anything positively. everyone with e85 in their tank is a guinea pig at this point.

I can tell you that cars have been required by law to run E10 since 1985. There's very little risk that Ethanol corrosion is the issue unless you want to call Subaru's engineering skill into question. Occasionally there have been issues with individual companies using out of spec parts but they're rare. Most likely the issues are gremlins from production such as the HPFP overheating.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The crickets are caused by a washer exposed to high pressure with too much tolerance. The most likely cause is heat. Mazda had some recalls recently due to HPFP overheating from seasonal variations in fuel.

I had my doubts that ethanol might be to blame but people running pure Gas have seen crickets come back. Crickets usually happen after the engine is warmed up and especially during idle, that marks ethanol off the list since it would chirp all the time if that were the cause.



I can tell you that cars have been required by law to run E10 since 1985. There's very little risk that Ethanol corrosion is the issue unless you want to call Subaru's engineering skill into question. Occasionally there have been issues with individual companies using out of spec parts but they're rare. Most likely the issues are gremlins from production such as the HPFP overheating.

e10 is not e85. You may be right. Or not. I have no idea and you don't either lol.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by jamesm

e10 is not e85. You may be right. Or not. I have no idea and you don't either lol.

The increased risk of corrosion between E85 and E10 is minimal though. Modern RF Gasoline is already very corrosive due to aromatics. And new fuel systems are pretty durable in regards to Ethanol resistance. Because if something is not, it will fail, doesn't matter if it's E10 or E98.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The increased risk of corrosion between E85 and E10 is minimal though. Modern RF Gasoline is already very corrosive due to aromatics. And new fuel systems are pretty durable in regards to Ethanol resistance. Because if something is not, it will fail, doesn't matter if it's E10 or E98.

My point is just that everything at this point is speculation. It may be educated speculation, and there are smart arguments to be made on both sides, but it's speculation none the less. Nobody knows for sure, yet.

[DYOLF26]

Filters
Since alcohol-based fuels tend to carry more water than gasoline, the filters can't be water-soluble. Paper is more sensitive to exposure to water than other materials, so they should be avoided unless the manufacturer states it is alcohol friendly. Most of the top-shelf filters use a metal or plastic screen to catch debris. Another issue with the filters can be the O-ring style fittings. Some O-rings not designed to work with alcohol will dry out.

Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...#ixzz2YcIUgrDw

Our cars have paper filters and the photos of the failed fuel filter in this thread are proof. People have been using ethanol way before these cars so no this is not a game of speculation, there are countless examples of this if you would just take the time to look. Yes we have paper filters and it would also be safe to assume that any o-rings in the fuel system are not designed to work with alcohol based fuels and will eventually dry out and leak. You may be fine for awhile but I know that I would love to run e85 in my FR-S but i would only do so if i made the proper modifications to avoid creating a big problem down the road leaving me with my nice brand new car out of commission.

[charged86]

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by charged86

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

They're in the business of selling E85 conversion kits. I doubt they'd make the argument that it wasn't safe.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by jamesm

My point is just that everything at this point is speculation. It may be educated speculation, and there are smart arguments to be made on both sides, but it's speculation none the less. Nobody knows for sure, yet.

Agreed especially since there isn't another person with this issue.

John

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by robispec

.. It's interesting how using 100 octane race fuel gets twisted to "fuel aditives" ...

I don't care about who's right and wrong here. But what you used before E85 could very well explain why you had filter degradation while other people running E85 for thousands of miles aren't having this problem.

All it would take is some Toulene to eat through a paper filter.

Originally Posted by DYOLF26

Filters
Since alcohol-based fuels tend to carry more water than gasoline, the filters can't be water-soluble. Paper is more sensitive to exposure to water than other materials, so they should be avoided unless the manufacturer states it is alcohol friendly. Most of the top-shelf filters use a metal or plastic screen to catch debris. Another issue with the filters can be the O-ring style fittings. Some O-rings not designed to work with alcohol will dry out.

You can believe a bunch of grease monkeys using conventional wisdom. Or you can believe chemists who know what they're doing.

[BRZYOLO]

bumping this tread from the dead, is there anymore info from regarding the filter now?

[Clipdat]

Yes please. Can anyone comment on the possible long term detriments of running E85? I'm about to order a OFT and would like to know.

Originally Posted by bosco3857

bumping this tread from the dead, is there anymore info from regarding the filter now?

[mkivsoopra]

Originally Posted by bosco3857

bumping this tread from the dead, is there anymore info from regarding the filter now?

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Yes please. Can anyone comment on the possible long term detriments of running E85? I'm about to order a OFT and would like to know.

Check this thread from a few months ago: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64621