Ford Fiesta ST Beats Toyota GT86 on the Track in EVO Test

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I'm a believer in RWD if only for the classic driving dynamics/techniques it allows you to use.

FWD can be fast, but it is dynamically inferior. There are many things that can be done to negate that inferiority, but the fact remains that you have to do more with less (turn and go), and that as you accelerate the grip shifts to the non-drive wheels.

Now. That doesn't mean that with the particular limitations of a specific chassis fwd won't be faster (look at the Audi TT endurance racers that get converted to FWD because the weight reduction makes the car faster than the AWD system), or that you can't modify to seriously negate the disadvantages (Huge slicks in front, skinny rear tires ala tons of track Civics) but given a blank slate, ground up design made purely for speed, RWD or in some cases, AWD is going to be faster, or at least more consistently fast as it uses it's tires more effectively. You don't see FWD hypercars and you don't see FWD Formula 1 cars.

Whether that has much relevance to the current conversation is up for dabate. Given two platforms with all kinds of design compromises between them due to material, packaging, technological, and cost constraints and when it comes to pure speed or driving fun I'd guess the competency of the individual engineering teams is going to have a bigger part than layout choice.

I know that I personally love the feeling of driving a RWD car, and even really great FWD cars just don't have the same "feel." That in no way means a FWD car can't be a boatload of fun. I'd personally love to build a stripped out track civic hatchback for grins, just because stupid lightweight stupid grippy, properly setup fwd cars do have their charms and I'd like to learn how to drive fast on ANY platform.

Cheers
Nathan

Well said Nathan.

I love RWD and may never buy another FWD car for myself. I just hate the elitists on here (and most other forums, especially E30 forums) that look down their nose at every FWD car no matter how cool or fast or proper handling it is. The FRZ is the first RWD car I have ever owned. When I had a FWD car, it really bothered me that all of the RWD and AWD people would look down on my car because it was FWD, even if it was faster and handled better than their car. Now, I have a RWD car and I just get angry at those same people because I can own a RWD and still respect FWD cars and see them as possibly being cool and fun.

Which in turn, is why I get defensive over FWD cars on here because I feel like I have to be super pro-FWD just to help balance the ridiculous amount of "FWD is stupid" attitudes. (Which I do understand probably doesn't help change those people's views)

[Demandred7]

Wow, now I know that if I want to get somewhere 1 second sooner, I will have to switch cars (add sarcasm font).

Are we done comparing johnsons? This guy supposedly has a big one, but, would you really want to look like him. The Fiesta has about the same sort of looks IMO.

[TylerLieberman]

Ford has figured out how to make a good fwd platform. They took it and made it smaller.

I'd be interested in driving one just to see how it drives but I wouldn't take it over an frs/brz

[Jedi1]

Who is driving these FRS and BRZ's that are getting outrun by Fiesta's? Ours was capable of running around an autocross or road course quite quickly on the crap stock tire and now with just a cat back and some RS3's it's a top 5 raw time ride at every local autocross I've attended. I'm floored by the supposed lack of performance from one of the most capable chassis I've ever had the pleasure to drive.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

Who is driving these FRS and BRZ's that are getting outrun by Fiesta's? Ours was capable of running around an autocross or road course quite quickly on the crap stock tire and now with just a cat back and some RS3's it's a top 5 raw time ride at every local autocross I've attended. I'm floored by the supposed lack of performance from one of the most capable chassis I've ever had the pleasure to drive.

They weren't on an autocross course and they weren't on RS3s...

[Steve]

he literally spent the entire minute and half lap complaining about the tires and lack of grip while the horrendous tire squeal resonated on every turn lol

[hmong337]

I didn't watch the video but all I know is this... I don't care how much faster the Focus is. The Focus is ugly as sin! I'll take my sexy and slow FRS over that heap ALL DAY! I'll come back and smoke it with my 20 year-old relic MR2 turbo.

[Chimpo]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I didn't watch the video but all I know is this... I don't care how much faster the Focus is. The Focus is ugly as sin! I'll take my sexy and slow FRS over that heap ALL DAY! I'll come back and smoke it with my 20 year-old relic MR2 turbo.

Obviously you didn't watch it since the car was a Fiesta and not a Focus. :happy0180:

[dori.]

this is not a surprising result to me... one car has a lot more torque and better tires than the other

I don't need to make excuses to justify my purchase. If I wanted something that was going to beat everything on the road, I would have gotten a GT-R or a GT500 or something. the ft86 is just a fun car, end of story.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

Wow, now I know that if I want to get somewhere 1 second sooner, I will have to switch cars (add sarcasm font).

Are we done comparing johnsons? This guy supposedly has a big one, but, would you really want to look like him. The Fiesta has about the same sort of looks IMO.

Um, point of order, but that is Ron Jeremy's face photoshopped on Saddam Hussein's body. I still get your point, but I lol'd a little at the picture.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Um, point of order, but that is Ron Jeremy's face photoshopped on Saddam Hussein's body. I still get your point, but I lol'd a little at the picture.

It's actually the body of one of the 9/11 terrorists, not Saddam

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

It's actually the body of one of the 9/11 terrorists, not Saddam

Oops, you're right. Still, the guys looked fairly similar when they got caught.

[radroach]

@DylanFRS FF will always be faster than an FR setup except for cornering

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by radroach

@DylanFRS FF will always be faster than an FR setup except for cornering

That's a very broad/general statement.