Ford Fiesta ST Beats Toyota GT86 on the Track in EVO Test

[Iceman]

Well...it's all a matter of tire choice. The RE050A on the Fiesta are way better than the Primacy's. We all know the GT86 with proper tires gets much faster.

Some magazine here tested the GT86 with Pilot Sport 3 tires against the RenaultSport Clio(the previous one, a reference in the hot hatch sector) and the Toyota was slightly faster WITHOUT losing any fun.

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

On a side note, that has got to be one of the only cars I have seen that will lift the inside rear wheel stock (and not from maxing the droop). Nice job to Ford on the setup.

That's actually a pretty common thing amongst european hot-hatches, specially those with the best handling. They're quite fun on the road!

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

The Fiesta ST has 197 horsepower.

The Fiesta has 179bhp in Europe. Pretty torquey though.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

One caveat to the "Prius tires" argument - if you check the specs you'll see that the Fiesta ST's tires are actually narrower than the FR-S's : 205 vs. 215. That difference will partially balance out the better quality tire on the ST.

205 vs 215 is not a big difference, the type of tire and compound plays a more important role.

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by topazsparrow

Excuse me for playing devils advocate here, but what empiracle evidence do you have to support this?

I think if you took the exact same car and made two versions of it, FWD and RWD, there would be a negligible difference in track times.

I think this mentality derives from the fact that most economy (cheap) cars are traditionally FWD because they are cheaper and more production friendly. The cars are not necessarily geared toward a specific purpose (like track ability) like many RWD cars are from the drawing board.

The closest I've done to making a true comparison between very similar FWD and RWD cars was several years ago at an autocross when I had my Mini Cooper and a good friend brought his Miata. Both had 1.6L engines rated at 115-116hp, manual transmissions, and the weight was pretty close too (about 200 lbs apart). I swapped my wheels and tires back and forth between the two cars, and both cars were completely stock. The Mini felt faster, the Miata was faster when run on the same tires. It has been 7 or 8 years, but IIRC the difference was close to half a second on a 30-40 second autocross course.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Miniata

The closest I've done to making a true comparison between very similar FWD and RWD cars was several years ago at an autocross when I had my Mini Cooper and a good friend brought his Miata. Both had 1.6L engines rated at 115-116hp, manual transmissions, and the weight was pretty close too (about 200 lbs apart). I swapped my wheels and tires back and forth between the two cars, and both cars were completely stock. The Mini felt faster, the Miata was faster when run on the same tires. It has been 7 or 8 years, but IIRC the difference was close to half a second on a 30-40 second autocross course.

struts vs double wishbone?

[EAGLE5]

I have not driven a Fiesta ST so I cannot weigh in but the focus st put me to sleep. The frs is not about outright speed nor track times. It is about fun driving. Yes, acceleration is fun, but it can also cut the fun when the canyon straight ends too quickly.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by raul

Compound often has a bigger effect than size.

That's why I used the word partially when I talked about counterbalancing the better quality of the Fiesta ST rubber. Quite aware of the compound/construction effects.

[Chimpo]

Everyone bitching here or coming up with counter points... but I'm excited. My wife has wanted a Fiesta for a while now, and I've been pitching this one to her since she was able to see it in person at the NAIAS.

So many people get bent out of shape when this car "loses" on some sort of subjective / objective test. Who cares? It's fun to drive, and if you remember, that was THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR.

We should be thrilled to be getting hot hatches, other companies noticing the success of the 86 clones wanting to make their own, and on and on. Instead it always turns into a lot of complaining why whatever particular car secretly sucks and that the 86 clones just need tires.

Celebrate that cool cars are arriving all the time as the alternative looks beige and suffers from model bloat.

[Steve]

the bobble head car wobble sold me. trading in FR-S

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Miniata

The closest I've done to making a true comparison between very similar FWD and RWD cars was several years ago at an autocross when I had my Mini Cooper and a good friend brought his Miata. Both had 1.6L engines rated at 115-116hp, manual transmissions, and the weight was pretty close too (about 200 lbs apart). I swapped my wheels and tires back and forth between the two cars, and both cars were completely stock. The Mini felt faster, the Miata was faster when run on the same tires. It has been 7 or 8 years, but IIRC the difference was close to half a second on a 30-40 second autocross course.

At first you would think that's a good comparison, but it's not. The lighter the car and the less power it makes and the less the drivetrain matters. Thus, with those 2 lightweight cars and meager power outputs the drive wheels matter little, as the tire compounds of the day can take the abuse.

But take 2 3200lb cars with 300 hp and the front tires just cannot do it all.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

But take 2 3200lb cars with 300 hp and the front tires just cannot do it all.

You mean like the Focus ST that has ~270hp and weighs around 3200lbs and will also beat the FRZ around a track stock for stock?

Originally Posted by Chimpo

Celebrate that cool cars are arriving all the time as the alternative looks beige and suffers from model bloat.

Seriously... Why can't there be more than one cool car at a reasonable price? The FRZ doesn't have to be the only cool car under $30k.

And all of elitists on here that just auto-respond to any FWD car as not being cool because it is FWD, you are just narrow minded and your opinion doesn't matter on this subject. Anyone who has actually spent a decent amount of time at the track can respect FWD cars because they have watched plenty of RWD and AWD car get torn up at the track by FWD cars.

[thill]

I agree with the sentiment that there are some great cars out right now under $30K. The Focus ST, Mazda Speed 3, Miata, Gencoupe, Mustang, Camaro, FR-S/BRZ, GTI, etc. Tons of choice. The hot hatch segment has really started heating up with the Focus ST, Fiesta ST, Veloster Turbo, and then the GTI and Speed3.

I liked the Focus ST when I drove it, but there was something missing. The steering sometimes felt vague to me. It drove well for a FWD car with that much power and torque, but I think I actually preferred the rawness of the Speed3 vs the Focus ST. The Speed3 had more noticeable torque steer, but at the same time, the car felt more raw and not as vague as the Focus ST.

The Fiesta ST seems like a nice little car for the money. After awhile, I am sure yo will be able to find them for under $20K. Focus ST's near me are going for around $22K which is a lot of car for the money. I honestly would probably step up to one of those over the Fiesta if I could.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

You mean like the Focus ST that has ~270hp and weighs around 3200lbs and will also beat the FRZ around a track stock for stock?



Seriously... Why can't there be more than one cool car at a reasonable price? The FRZ doesn't have to be the only cool car under $30k.

And all of elitists on here that just auto-respond to any FWD car as not being cool because it is FWD, you are just narrow minded and your opinion doesn't matter on this subject. Anyone who has actually spent a decent amount of time at the track can respect FWD cars because they have watched plenty of RWD and AWD car get torn up at the track by FWD cars.

Are you referring to the Focus ST that will have its front tires overheating after just a few short laps? If so, then yes. And you're not even comparing two cars with similar power to weight ratios. Come on man!

And I'm not a RWD elitist. I'm a realist. And yes I have tracked and autoxed (extensively) my GS-R.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by thill

Focus ST's near me are going for around $22K which is a lot of car for the money. I honestly would probably step up to one of those over the Fiesta if I could.

Agreed on the first point - but guys on the ST forums that have driven both tend to find the new Fiesta ST a better handler and more fun to drive (it does weigh about 500 lb less). (No the FiST has not been released yet in NA but people are driving them on manufacturer track days.)

[RurumariGhost]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

Infiniti doesn't make a kitchen.

:happy0180:

[EAGLE5]

I'd love to add a Fiesta ST to the garage. Maybe put a cage on it and make it a track toy. However, the wife doesn't want a manual, and the little cars just aren't that safe. The Focus ST? Not so much. Too big. Too heavy for me. I wonder if they'll make an AWD Fiesta. That would be a blast. Like a 323 GTX.

Originally Posted by Chimpo

Everyone bitching here or coming up with counter points... but I'm excited. My wife has wanted a Fiesta for a while now, and I've been pitching this one to her since she was able to see it in person at the NAIAS.

So many people get bent out of shape when this car "loses" on some sort of subjective / objective test. Who cares? It's fun to drive, and if you remember, that was THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CAR.

We should be thrilled to be getting hot hatches, other companies noticing the success of the 86 clones wanting to make their own, and on and on. Instead it always turns into a lot of complaining why whatever particular car secretly sucks and that the 86 clones just need tires.

Celebrate that cool cars are arriving all the time as the alternative looks beige and suffers from model bloat.