BRZ after Cayman S and M3... is it a downgrade? NOW WITH VIDEO!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

While the mid engine and weight balance is nice. I never felt that the engine was anything special. Feels like it is being held back as to not compete with the newer beetles.

I've always hated Porsche for that. I'd take a popped 987 and drop the 3.8L in there...beat the Beetles all day long.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You asked for a single parameter where it comes close. The BRZ doesn't just come close, it beats even a Cayman R in weight difference by a considerable amount.

Unless that lighter weight comes with a better power to weight ratio and superior handling I don't really see how this is a measurable parameter that anyone cares about, in this discussion. Am I allowed to counter that by saying the Cayman S is better because it has a lower roof line?

Seems like you're arguing over trivial semantics here.

[King Tut]

Seems like you're upset that your 100% metric is wrong, and you are not willing to admit that. Power to weight ratio is not everything. All that does is keep cars similar on a straight away. It has little to do with how well they will handle. I can list other things on the BRZ that are an upgrade over the Cayman will drop that 100% metric down even further. Automatic headlights and "comfort access" would be a couple. Some would consider the cost of ownership to be an upgrade as well, but I felt you just wanted to talk performance, so I gave you a performance upgrade as to why I purchased a BRZ.

[WolfpackS2k]

Fair enough but,

Some would consider the cost of ownership to be an upgrade as well, but I felt you just wanted to talk performance, so I gave you a performance upgrade as to why I purchased a BRZ.

I already conceded cost of ownership, so I'm not even sure why you're saying it now? And my 100% metric was for total vehicle experience. Given that the Cayman outperforms the BRZ in every performance metric I don't understand why the 200 lb weight discrepancy makes any bit of difference here. Agree to disagree I guess. I can't think of a single person that would get rid of a Cayman for a BRZ because it's lighter though.

:happy0180:

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Seems like you're upset that your 100% metric is wrong, and you are not willing to admit that. Power to weight ratio is not everything. All that does is keep cars similar on a straight away. It has little to do with how well they will handle. I can list other things on the BRZ that are an upgrade over the Cayman will drop that 100% metric down even further. Automatic headlights and "comfort access" would be a couple. Some would consider the cost of ownership to be an upgrade as well, but I felt you just wanted to talk performance, so I gave you a performance upgrade as to why I purchased a BRZ.

My ULTIMATE problem with the Cayman is that it costs $60K. Then you add normal and some sporty options to it and you have a $90K car... cmon, I want PTV and a real LSD, but have to get PASM and like 10 other options?

Adaptive cornering headlights for $3K? Cmon...

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Agree to disagree I guess. I can't think of a single person that would get rid of a Cayman for a BRZ because it's lighter though.

:happy0180:

But you can think of a single person, because you can think of me. The lighter weight of the BRZ was no joke the number one reason I purchased this car. Second, was the cost of ownership and having more money to go racing.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

My ULTIMATE problem with the Cayman is that it costs $60K. Then you add normal and some sporty options to it and you have a $90K car... cmon, I want PTV and a real LSD, but have to get PASM and like 10 other options?

Adaptive cornering headlights for $3K? Cmon...

Bah. The Cayman R doesn't even offer PASM as an option because Porsche knows that it is a joke. I think the cost premium was well worth it to get the Sport Buckets and weight reduction elements that come with the Cayman R. All I added were the HIDs, Bose stereo, and Alcantara steering wheel. MSRP was around $73k, and I got it for around $69k.

[86BRZ]

....$69k...the price of 2 BRZ... I think owing 2 BRZ will even have more fun.

Thank you for the spot on review. Everything well said.

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Weight my friend, weight. I am fairly certain my BRZ is now at a point where it would be right there with my Cayman R in every performance aspect.

What do you have done to your BRZ?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

What do you have done to your BRZ?

Click the link in my signature.

[SuiSid3l]

Still think its a joke we are comparing 2 cares with MSRP's twice that of a BRZ/FRS....

Thats like comparing the Cayman to a 911 gt3.....

The question of downgrade is completely an opinion. Both cars are going to be superior in many aspects given the price range. But the BRZ holds what I consider important advantages over both. Its lighter, easier to put power into a care than take weight off. Its gonna cost infinitely less money to maintain and tinker with (aftermarket parts and much cheaper). And if you wanna get crazy - Buying a 30k car and dropping 30k in it is gonna make this car FAR superior to a car that costs 60k out of the gate. Not to mention the cost of Porsche and BMW aftermarket parts.

IMO these 3 cars are in completely different categories. This is straight up a tuner car, the Cayman was not designed to be a tuner car. The M3 could make that argument but at the end of the day its a luxury sports sedan/coupe. Why are we even arguing about this. You wanna dive something out of the gate with limited mods thats more of a luxury car? Or you want to mod/tinker with your car and drive a straight up raw sports car? Question answered...

That being said, the review was very well done and I enjoyed the insight. Still kind of an irrelevant argument IMO but I'm sure there are other parties who's interest this peaked.

[MTCRX]

I would hope that comparing a $70,000+ car to a $28,000 car you would notice the difference. I would be disappointed if I bought a Cayman and felt like it wasn't an improvement over the FRS. Not to mention license and insurance costs. Seems to be a silly comparison from that perspective, but in refinement and performance comparison it is still interesting to note what is noticed and what is valued in a car. I worry far less parking my FRS on the street than I would a 911 or M3, and I dont even live in a high crime area.

[red bread]

I appreciate this review, having first seen in on bimmerpost. Thanks for putting it together.

Performance aside, comparing a stock Cayman to a BRZ with lots of tuning may be fun, but don't mention any of this to your financial adviser. I've been considering a 987.2 or a BRZ, and the BRZ is currently winning for a number of practicality reasons and because it offers a great driving dynamic, regardless of price.

[stockysnail]

Great video. I agree with you completely, thus me owning a BRZ and dropping too many performance parts into it.