Is the tC still relevant?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

I suppose I worded that incorrectly. The tC does indeed have a very strong after market following. Likewise, many tC owners have gone to great lengths modding their car. to say it isn't a tuner car would be flagrantly wrong.

I suppose what I mean is that despite this following it is far from being an optimal performance vehicle. especially one that would compete with the FR-S for market share.

the 2AR-FE engine is indeed extremely reliable and has posted some surprising numbers with mods since it is such a strong engine. but a performance engine it is not. remember this is a motor that was first engineered for and used in the Rav-4 and Camry.

More importantly, there is weight. The tC is portly and worse yet that weight is distributed poorly. The glass top and excessive body roll don't help either.

Can the tC become fast? Absolutely. Does it take comparatively more money/time/mods than other coupes in the same price range? Yes.

I fixed that first issue. Disagree with the second part of it taking more money/time/mods than other coupes. What are you comparing it to when you say takes more money/time/mods to be faster or as fast? Motor is not "designated" as a performance motor, but it holds it's own with performance motors.

[Kids Heart]

The FR-S makes the TC even more relevant. Expect a sedan in the near future.

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I fixed that first issue. Disagree with the second part of it taking more money/time/mods than other coupes. What are you comparing it to when you say takes more money/time/mods to be faster or as fast? Motor is not "designated" as a performance motor, but it holds it's own with performance motors.

I would probably compare it to something that already has forced induction from the factory. A simple chip in a GTI, for instance, will increase power dramatically. Or perhaps something with a more aggressive suspension setup from the factory? The tC may be sporty-ish, but I don't think I've ever seen one being compared with members of the hot-hatch set (MS3, GTI, etc). And are you implying that you "fixed" the top-heaviness by removing the glass roof? I doubt that was cheap.

That said, you obviously dumped a lot of money into modifying your tC, so nothing I say is going to make you think, "Yeah, I guess I could have a chosen a better platform to begin with." We'll all be driving FR-S's and BRZ's soon anyway, so it's not like it'll matter .

[SUB-FT86]

I don't give a damn about backseat space but I would miss a liftback hatch though. Thats the only upside a Tc has over a FR-S in my perspective. I can't think of another benefit after that.

[WolfpackS2k]

In regards to scion, which many consider to be unsuccessful, is anything but. Everyone remember Oldsmobile? They use to be a relevant car manufacturer until they woke up one morning and there average customer was 65… 7 years ago Toyota was in a similar position, they had affordable reliable cars, but one of the oldest average buyer ages (40). Their solution to this was to attract younger buyers to Toyota dealerships via unconventional marketing and youth oriented vehicles. They also needed to do this without negatively affecting Toyota’s brand image.


Enter Scion, more of a marketing arm than a new brand, they exist in the corner of Toyota dealerships have advertising and vehicles that appeal to younger buyers, sold cars in a non conventional manner (Scion Pure Pricing) and used mono-spec offerings to keep cost down while using dealer installed accessories as a primary source of dealer income.


Make no mistake, Scion is not Lexus, they are not intended to be a self sufficient brand distinct and separate from Toyota. It is a gateway product meant to maintain Toyotas relevance among younger buyers. As well as an advertising department that can have edgy and unconventional methods without alienating Toyotas current customer base.

So you're saying that Toyota wanted to improve their brand image and bring in younger customers by...creating another brand that a lot of people don't even realize is Toyota?! Seems like pretty dumb logic to me. I'd also like to bring up the fact that when Scion was created they pledged to never sell one model longer than one generation, i.e. single run models. That lasted...almost no time at all.

Toyota needs to kill off Scion and rebadge those cars back to Toyotas as they rightfully should be. Toyota has a lot of sporting heritage that goes back over 40 years, something that Scion will never have.

I think their marketing people are a bunch of idiots

[TheMachine]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So you're saying that Toyota wanted to improve their brand image and bring in younger customers by...creating another brand that a lot of people don't even realize is Toyota?! Seems like pretty dumb logic to me. I'd also like to bring up the fact that when Scion was created they pledged to never sell one model longer than one generation, i.e. single run models. That lasted...almost no time at all.

Toyota needs to kill off Scion and rebadge those cars back to Toyotas as they rightfully should be. Toyota has a lot of sporting heritage that goes back over 40 years, something that Scion will never have.

I think their marketing people are a bunch of idiots

You should do some more research on Scion and the Racing division...

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So you're saying that Toyota wanted to improve their brand image and bring in younger customers by...creating another brand that a lot of people don't even realize is Toyota?! Seems like pretty dumb logic to me. I'd also like to bring up the fact that when Scion was created they pledged to never sell one model longer than one generation, i.e. single run models. That lasted...almost no time at all.

Toyota needs to kill off Scion and rebadge those cars back to Toyotas as they rightfully should be. Toyota has a lot of sporting heritage that goes back over 40 years, something that Scion will never have.

I think their marketing people are a bunch of idiots

Jack Hollis looks too old to be representing Scion and FR-S. #irony
And when he tries to act young I die a little. #cringe

[Dillano609]

Originally Posted by TheMachine

You should do some more research on Scion and the Racing division...

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Sabastian

I would probably compare it to something that already has forced induction from the factory. A simple chip in a GTI, for instance, will increase power dramatically. Or perhaps something with a more aggressive suspension setup from the factory? The tC may be sporty-ish, but I don't think I've ever seen one being compared with members of the hot-hatch set (MS3, GTI, etc). And are you implying that you "fixed" the top-heaviness by removing the glass roof? I doubt that was cheap.

That said, you obviously dumped a lot of money into modifying your tC, so nothing I say is going to make you think, "Yeah, I guess I could have a chosen a better platform to begin with." We'll all be driving FR-S's and BRZ's soon anyway, so it's not like it'll matter .

A Chipped GTI is not fast, it would still lose to a bolted on turbo kitted tC. A simple bolt-on turbo setup on a tC is faster than an MS3 or GTI. The price of the MS3 and GTI would be matched by a tC + turbo setup and be faster than both.

Carbon roof for the tC is $500. Install it yourself = free labor. Mine still has the glass but it's lighter everywhere else. I just haven't gotten around to replacing the roof yet.

Mine is a little irrelevant now and can't be compared to those other cars presently, but before I went down this path, it use to be just a straight bolted on turbo kit and that was it. Still was faster than even a modded MS3 or chipped GTI.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So you're saying that Toyota wanted to improve their brand image and bring in younger customers by...creating another brand that a lot of people don't even realize is Toyota?! Seems like pretty dumb logic to me. I'd also like to bring up the fact that when Scion was created they pledged to never sell one model longer than one generation, i.e. single run models. That lasted...almost no time at all.

Toyota needs to kill off Scion and rebadge those cars back to Toyotas as they rightfully should be. Toyota has a lot of sporting heritage that goes back over 40 years, something that Scion will never have.

I think their marketing people are a bunch of idiots

The revenue would go back to Toyota either way, so don't think that really matters that much.

[SUB-FT86]

What racing heritage does Scion possess? The RWD Tc drift car? I don't think that counts if that is what you're talking about.

[MiguelAE86]

No. It's not.

Although, i'll admit, it's Scion's bread and butter, so in a way we owe some respect to the tC

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

What racing heritage does Scion possess? The RWD Tc drift car? I don't think that counts if that is what you're talking about.

Love how the drift tC's are the only one's anyone ever think about. Which proves my point I made in the other thread regarding their approach to racing.


Hmm...Let's see..

Instead of giving you a Loooong list of stuff, I'll just send the links

Drag, Drift, Road Racing/Time Attack and Rally

http://www.scion.com/scionracing/index.html


World Racing's accomplishment link (out dated though since they re-broke ever record so far with their new 2012 tC 2.0)

http://www.world-racing.com/vehicles.htm



PTuning - Independent shop and not backed by Toyota (2008-2009) FWD Modified Time Attack champs

http://www.ptuningscion.com/subdir/ta_sciontc.cfm

[random]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So you're saying that Toyota wanted to improve their brand image and bring in younger customers by...creating another brand that a lot of people don't even realize is Toyota?! Seems like pretty dumb logic to me.

You should take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scion_(automobile)

"Scion is a brand of vehicles produced by Toyota Motor Corporation for the North American market. Founded in 2002, Scion's long-term goal is to appeal to Generation Y consumers."

[Dave-ROR]

Regardless of which racing series you are talking about, Scion does NOT have racing HERITAGE. Not yet anyways.