Innovate/Spritex/Bullet... What I found searching the web.

[Draco-REX]

I thought CARB approval could be applied retroactively.

[robispec]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I could do the math....but what's your tire diameter?

this was on a 225 Rival

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

I thought CARB approval could be applied retroactively.

And what if they don't get it? They are supposed to support issues w/ folks in California that got the kit out of state or just tell a signifcant portion of their client base to just eff off? Bad business.
_____

Personally I think their approach sets their company philosophy above the other brands who are dumping their crap all over the market like crack dealers. From experience, I'd say the whiny impatient customers are the ones you don't want to buy your products anyway, too much hassle often leading to a loss. Better to cater to more competent and less neurological customers that don't ask for updates every 5 minutes.

If one were to actually think about what's involved in the tuning process, all the variables, the marketing, and support they will have to deliver, everything they've done makes sense apart from the mistake of promising early dynos and letting certain folk talk about it.

The fact that the kit is offered in Australia and not in the US yet tells you everything you need to know. So just think about what those differences are.

[Subzero]

Well said.

It looks plenty quick for a DD.

CARB is a hairy deal that always comes last, not first.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

The fact that the kit is offered in Australia and not in the US yet tells you everything you need to know. So just think about what those differences are.

The toilets flush backwards down there?

[Subzero]

...and it's easier to R&D on your own continent.

[Anaxilus]

Quick question here because I think there are one or two left foot brakers in the thread. Have you run into any issues w/ Toyota's new Star Safety throttle cut-off when simultaneously on the brake and throttle?

[robispec]

not in pedel dance mode

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

And what if they don't get it?

Does that mean you think they shouldn't sell it at all if they don't get CARB approval?

They are supposed to support issues w/ folks in California that got the kit out of state or just tell a signifcant portion of their client base to just eff off? Bad business.

How is it different from any other item that isn't CARB approved?

I'm trying to understand your points here. They wouldn't be selling it with a fake CARB stamp, or with a promise that it would be CARB-approved. The purchaser knows it doesn't have a CARB stamp and it's their decision to buy or not. So how would it failing CARB approval mean they'd have to tell their customers to "eff off"?

Especially since all the customers that don't need CARB approval (the majority of the US and neighboring countries) don't care if the California Air Resources Board accepts Innovates offerings of cash and flattery or not.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Does that mean you think they shouldn't sell it at all if they don't get CARB approval?


How is it different from any other item that isn't CARB approved?

I'm trying to understand your points here. They wouldn't be selling it with a fake CARB stamp, or with a promise that it would be CARB-approved. The purchaser knows it doesn't have a CARB stamp and it's their decision to buy or not. So how would it failing CARB approval mean they'd have to tell their customers to "eff off"?

Especially since all the customers that don't need CARB approval (the majority of the US and neighboring countries) don't care if the California Air Resources Board accepts Innovates offerings of cash and flattery or not.

it would be alot like advertising something as plug and play compatible for an OS that isn't here yet. Alot of people will buy assuming that it will meet CARB approval, or they may find during the approval process that there needs to be XXX change made to satisfy the monkeys at the BAR...and having not released any "non-conforming product" means not having to ask all your customers to send back the old pulley and downgrade to this larger pulley to meet CARB status...there are a million possibilities and liabilities, and for alot of companies it is about more than how much cash you can bring in TODAY, imagine the hit their rep would take when they have to recall every kit sold in california because a hardware update was required to meet CARB approval, and they already had kits out and about?

Also have you missed the fact that the rest of the nation is slowly but surely adopting California's ARB standards and implementing them....

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

it would be alot like advertising something as plug and play compatible for an OS that isn't here yet. Alot of people will buy assuming that it will meet CARB approval, or they may find during the approval process that there needs to be XXX change made to satisfy the monkeys at the BAR...and having not released any "non-conforming product" means not having to ask all your customers to send back the old pulley and downgrade to this larger pulley to meet CARB status...there are a million possibilities and liabilities, and for alot of companies it is about more than how much cash you can bring in TODAY, imagine the hit their rep would take when they have to recall every kit sold in california because a hardware update was required to meet CARB approval, and they already had kits out and about?

Also have you missed the fact that the rest of the nation is slowly but surely adopting California's ARB standards and implementing them....

Honestly, it's the buyer's decision to purchase a product that might not be legal for road use. So I don't accept that part of the argument. Nor do I think it would be Innovate's responsibility to fix the customer's poor decision. It would be nice of them, but not their responsibility.

For instance, I don't expect a company selling track pipes to supply a catted version if the customer suddenly wants to pass inspection. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions. You buy a non-CARB part, you roll the dice if you install it in CA.

As for CARB states, there are 16, and that's counting those planning to adopt it but haven't yet. And not all are adopting the full regulations either. So yes, the majority of US states and surrounding countries are not concerned with CARB bureaucracy.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Honestly, it's the buyer's decision to purchase a product that might not be legal for road use. So I don't accept that part of the argument. Nor do I think it would be Innovate's responsibility to fix the customer's poor decision. It would be nice of them, but not their responsibility.

For instance, I don't expect a company selling track pipes to supply a catted version if the customer suddenly wants to pass inspection. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions. You buy a non-CARB part, you roll the dice if you install it in CA.

As for CARB states, there are 16, and that's counting those planning to adopt it but haven't yet. And not all are adopting the full regulations either. So yes, the majority of US states and surrounding countries are not concerned with CARB bureaucracy.

Good luck running a business where you expect all your customers to accept responsibility and where your business doesn't take a hit for not supporting people who don't. Especially when it's a niche business w/ small volume. You can run your own business under ideal fantasy conditions like that but I wont and neither will many others. The prudent decision is to wait. While you are waiting, I'd recommend some Sun Tzu.

Btw, if you are in that much of a hurry, I'm sure you could snatch a kit from Australia one way or another.

[swift996]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Honestly, it's the buyer's decision to purchase a product that might not be legal for road use. So I don't accept that part of the argument. Nor do I think it would be Innovate's responsibility to fix the customer's poor decision. It would be nice of them, but not their responsibility.

For instance, I don't expect a company selling track pipes to supply a catted version if the customer suddenly wants to pass inspection. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions. You buy a non-CARB part, you roll the dice if you install it in CA.

As for CARB states, there are 16, and that's counting those planning to adopt it but haven't yet. And not all are adopting the full regulations either. So yes, the majority of US states and surrounding countries are not concerned with CARB bureaucracy.

You're sounding too logical. The problem is many in this country wan't to blame someone else for their decisions (why should one be responsible for what they consume?). If only we were free to choose...

[Accurate Race Shop]

My view on carb is that I almost garuntee that the box is going to say not for use on public roads. This protects them from being sued if you have an accident and blame it on the part. My coil overs had that on them the same as my intake, exhuast, strut tower bar, and even hid lights. I bet this is going to be no different and if you use it on public roads you are taking the risk of being in trouble with the law for doing so. It does suck for carb effected people meaning once a year they are going to have to pull off the super charger bring the car back to stock to have it tested. But this all comes with the territory of modding cars I have done it in arizona several times and each time I curse the name epa but I do it anyway. Another option is if you have a second car insure your fr-s or BRZ as a special use vehicle so it doesn't get tested. The down side to that is it will have a huge deductible close to $3,000 if you total it. Hagerty is a good company to look at for special use insurance (aka track car). Just my thoughts on it all. I enjoy the input and how civil this thread is despite the different views everyone has.

Sent from my Q10