Can steering feel, tactility, be improved? Without sacrificing adjustability?

[ST185RC]

I always found that slapping on bigger wheels with a smaller tire sidewall profile to give a more rigid wheel gives much better steering responsiveness and steering feel. My 18" superleggeras have pretty much the same rolling diameter (off by 0.21% by 1010tire calculator with tires on) and the wheels are lighter than stock. I could feel a big difference in wheel communicating back (over bumps, road tracking etc).

[Sarlacc]

Looking forward to your project thread, then.

[Trettiosjuan]

No such thread coming as it will be (almost) completely stock.

I've modified a few cars before and I've learnt that:
a) modifying usually only improves the car because you spent and forever lost more money (which perhaps could have been spent on a better car)
b) improvements are mostly moving around the compromise between existing properties of the car and rarely a big improvement of the combination
c) they always feel a bigger improvement at first, when you actually felt a difference. But either you get used to the quickly, or ...
d) .... you upset the balance somewhat and want to change eleventhirty other things, too

So it is best to find a car that from the outset was designed closest to your expectations, hence why I am here. I have managed to limit my modifications on my latest cars and this one I now decided I will modify for max 5% of the purchase price, all non-visible.

And now there is the question of timing - personal situation vs. 2nd hand market trends. I imagine that I am rather patient (true or not depends on when and who you ask), just like the development of this car, me getting it may be a somewhat longer story

[Sarlacc]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

No such thread coming as it will be (almost) completely stock.

I've modified a few cars before and I've learnt that:
a) modifying usually only improves the car because you spent and forever lost more money (which perhaps could have been spent on a better car)
b) improvements are mostly moving around the compromise between existing properties of the car and rarely a big improvement of the combination
c) they always feel a bigger improvement at first, when you actually felt a difference. But either you get used to the quickly, or ...
d) .... you upset the balance somewhat and want to change eleventhirty other things, too

So it is best to find a car that from the outset was designed closest to your expectations, hence why I am here. I have managed to limit my modifications on my latest cars and this one I now decided I will modify for max 5% of the purchase price, all non-visible.

And now there is the question of timing - personal situation vs. 2nd hand market trends. I imagine that I am rather patient (true or not depends on when and who you ask), just like the development of this car, me getting it may be a somewhat longer story

This is the most sensible post I've read on this forum. By far.

It's just that... well... getting a GT86 isn't a very sensible thing to do in the first place.

[SeeSharkySwim]

The swift lowering springs actually ride better than factory at the same time aiding steering response. You can also increase response with sway bars without sacfiricing ride quality since they transfer load laterally, stiffer bushings and set tire pressures will also help. And maybe chassis bracing? although I think that stuff is a waste of money.

[regal]

Electric steering has been an industry wide mis-step. Even the new 911, people are having issues with the lack of road feel with its new e-steering.

I grew up driving beat-up BMW's and similar cars where you just learn an innate intuition to the road thru the feel of the steering.

My first e-steered vehicle was a 09 Yaris, I had no accidents in 20 years with Gieco. I ran that Yaris off the road 3 times in the first year. Just never could get used to the e-steering it was so damn numb, after three wrecks I knew I needed a better car.

And the FR-S is much better, Toyota have taken steps and learned from their earlier mistakes with e-steering. But I've also been looking for aftermarket options that would help give a manual rack feel, from what I have researched there isn't much that can be done to improve the stock steering.

[avp1]

Originally Posted by regal

Electric steering has been an industry wide mis-step. Even the new 911, people are having issues with the lack of road feel with its new e-steering.

I grew up driving beat-up BMW's and similar cars where you just learn an innate intuition to the road thru the feel of the steering.

My first e-steered vehicle was a 09 Yaris, I had no accidents in 20 years with Gieco. I ran that Yaris off the road 3 times in the first year. Just never could get used to the e-steering it was so damn numb, after three wrecks I knew I needed a better car.

And the FR-S is much better, Toyota have taken steps and learned from their earlier mistakes with e-steering. But I've also been looking for aftermarket options that would help give a manual rack feel, from what I have researched there isn't much that can be done to improve the stock steering.

The best steering feel I experienced so far was in Mazda RX8, which I bought 9 years ago. And it also was electrically assisted. So steering feel is more a function of design rather than execution. Actually you can always play with alignment or even tires pressure to significatly alter sense of road in most cars.

[Trettiosjuan]

The honda NSX already had EPS and I don't recall anybody complaining there, right?

Just a note. Steering feel is hard to define and even harder to quantify, but increasing the rate of feedback by making the chassis stiffer in various ways can be but is not necessarily the same as improving feel.

[cmspooner]

I'm thinking about trying this: Modifying Electric Power Steering, but not until I am out of warantee and have enough money for a second assist motor; in case I burn it out.

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

The honda NSX already had EPS and I don't recall anybody complaining there, right?

Yes but it's not quite the same. The BRZ power steering motor is applied through the steering shaft while the NSX force is applied through the rack. Without trying both methods on the same chassis I can't comment on the impact that has but it's worth pointing out.

Originally Posted by cmspooner

I'm thinking about trying this: Modifying Electric Power Steering, but not until I am out of warantee and have enough money for a second assist motor; in case I burn it out.

What good is the warranty for if not replacing parts when I experiment? My prototype version is getting installed this weekend, hopefully ordering a PCB version this week...

[Xauterus]

I dont think you can blame the electric steering in the Yaris for its drivability. It has terrible handling from the factory. I think this is because it is too tall and too short. I am embarrassed that toyota released such a bad car.

[cmspooner]

Originally Posted by mobybrz

What good is the warranty for if not replacing parts when I experiment? My prototype version is getting installed this weekend, hopefully ordering a PCB version this week...

Nice! If it works, can you order a few boards so others can join in the fun! I just need to be a little bit careful with mission critical systems (like steering) since the BRZ is my daily driver.

[DarkSunrise]

Switching out the factory all-seasons for max-performance summer tires in stock size (215/45/17) on slightly wider/lighter wheels (17x8, 18 lbs) gave a nice improvement in steering feel for me.

Even stock though, I liked the steering feel in this car. It's a nice step up from my mk6 GTI and (now-sold) STI, and just a bit below the best hydraulic racks I've driven.

[mobybrz]

Originally Posted by cmspooner

Nice! If it works, can you order a few boards so others can join in the fun! I just need to be a little bit careful with mission critical systems (like steering) since the BRZ is my daily driver.

(without any intent to piss off the forum commercial gods) I am thinking about it. The circuit board as designed has a NC bypass relay so if anything goes wrong it defaults back to normal. I am gonna try a few different 'maps' this weekend (the big rotary switch allows map changes) and see if it makes any damn difference at all.