FRS vs BMW e46 M3. Which to buy?

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by JW89225

I went for the FR-S at the time, but now thinking back I should have gone for the E46 M3. The one I looked at was a Alpine White/Fox Red interior too... would have made a perfect match for my E92 Alpine White/Fox Red... Can't beat having the last NA Straight 6 M3 and the only NA V8 M3 in the stable together. Mind you, he listed for $32,000 and I paid $32,500 for the FR-S after tax, warranty etc.

Holy crap that's a lot of money for an FR-S. I paid less than that for my BRZ limited.

That's also an expensive E46 M3 though. :\

Not too late to sell the FR-S and get an E46!

[swift996]

My take:

M3 an all around better car with greater performance

BRZ is 650lbs lighter though so if you love handling with an agile feel, well I bought a BRZ for a reason.

[orangeblue]

I'm selling my 2004 330i ZHP, which is as close to a 4-door M3 as you could get from an E46. The car has been in my family since it was new, so I know fairly well the issues with E46s relative to the Toyobaru twins.

The big issue you'll have is maintenance. While some things are well within the realm of a good driveway mechanic (I did my last brake job in my driveway for about $300 in parts costs), other things (like the inevitable VANOS rebuild) are not. And of course, since it's a BMW, parts costs and service rates are higher. The E46 range was plagued with issues from subframe separation (catastrophic) to weird electrical gremlins to unusually terrible window regulators. Any E46 you find will have pretty high mileage, meaning you'll want to verify that things like the water pump have been replaced.

If you want a comparison between the cars themselves, they're very different. Even my 330i has a lot more torque than my FR-S. An M3 will obviously have much more power than the FR-S. I notice the difference in torque all the time in daily driving; you can't just floor the throttle, you need to downshift. Fit/finish and materials are in a totally different league. The FR-S has a decent interior for a $25k car, but not something you'd confuse with a $60k car (even a 10 year old one).

If you're at all on a budget, I'd lean toward the FR-S. The maintenance, gas mileage, insurance, etc. will all be higher with the M3 than the FR-S.

[f0rge]

Another way to look at it is that it might be hard to find a nice e46 M3 in 3-5 years for a good price, but in that same 3-5 years there will be a ton of FR-S/BRZ's on the market.

These cars are already starting to bottom out, you can get rough ones around $15k, I don't think these will drop under $10k like the e36's have.

[King Tut]

Instead of the E46 M3, consider the newer and lighter Z4MC. I know I have been for a couple months now.

[Spaghetti Yo]

The FRS drives like how M3 drivers THINK their cars drive. Former E46M3 owner here.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Yo

The FRS drives like how M3 drivers THINK their cars drive. Former E46M3 owner here.

I can agree here (also a former E46 M owner). FRS handles every bit as well as the E46M but without the weight. I do miss the power and sound of the M engine, though

[lourenco]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Yo

The FRS drives like how M3 drivers THINK their cars drive. Former E46M3 owner here.

I liked the heavy steering feel on the M3. I am looking to purchase a FRS. How is the steering feel and effort on the FRS compared to the M3?
__________________
2012 Mustang GT 600rwhp
2007 BMW 335i (Sold)
2003 BMW M3 SMG (Traded in)
2002 BMW Z3 (Traded in)
2000 Chevy Corvette (Sold)

[thill]

Former used BMW owner here and love the cars. That said, I don't think I would buy a beyond 4 year old used BMW again. And this seems to just be true of all German cars for me whether it be BMW, Audi, or VW. Each time I have purchased a German vehicle the result has been lots of repairs and many of them costly. Even routine maintenance can add up quickly. If you are out of warranty, the poster above nailed it when he stated not to go to the dealer and find a trusted mechanic who is typically much cheaper. Maybe I am just unlucky, but every other month I was looking at expensive repairs on my BMW. My Audi actually held up great the first three years (I bought one that was about 1 year old) then started to have lots of problems on year 4. Two VW's I owned (GTI, Jetta VR6) were just horrible. The Jetta was brand new and qualified as a lemon under Viriginia law..

That said, I will buy a Porsche at some point when the kids are out of the house and I can have my third car garage back. It will be a weekend car and nothing more.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by thill

Former used BMW owner here and love the cars. That said, I don't think I would buy a beyond 4 year old used BMW again. And this seems to just be true of all German cars for me whether it be BMW, Audi, or VW. Each time I have purchased a German vehicle the result has been lots of repairs and many of them costly. Even routine maintenance can add up quickly. If you are out of warranty, the poster above nailed it when he stated not to go to the dealer and find a trusted mechanic who is typically much cheaper.

If I went that route, I'd either get a brand new one (whether buying or leasing) or get a CPO one, then likely get rid of it once it's around that age. My boss is all about BMWs but watches his spending very closely (all about coupons, complains about gas prices yet lives in a $3 million house in Newport Beach, CA), but he dumps them after four or five years for a reason, usually just before the warranty is up. It's just odd to me that he's so loyal, even though ALL of his BMWs have had some major warranty work done. I think his 2006 530i had the entire block replaced at some point, if I remember correctly. His 2011 550i had something major done a few months ago too. But I guarantee that in 2015 or so, he'll be in another one and have the same problems.

But man, when they are running perfectly, they are pretty spiffy cars.

That aside, a lot of trusted local mechanics usually don't prefer to work on German cars though, unless it's a specialty shop that focuses on them. A local guy who I trust completely will work on German cars but he doesn't like to.

Originally Posted by thill

That said, I will buy a Porsche at some point when the kids are out of the house and I can have my third car garage back. It will be a weekend car and nothing more.

As much as I'd hate to own a German car (assuming that funds are not endless), I really do want a Porsche. But I have a few uncles who own 911s, and they seem to have really good experiences with them. One has a 2001 911 Carrera that he bought brand new, and he still has it, though he may upgrade in the next year or two. Another one has a 2004 911 Carrera 4S, also still has it. Both are running pretty strong, and I'm not aware of any problems. They both just talk about how the maintenance sucks, but it doesn't seem like they had any setbacks other than it not being cheap. But my friend who owned a Boxster (986) said he will never buy a Porsche again. So I guess it depends.

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by lourenco

I liked the heavy steering feel on the M3. I am looking to purchase a FRS. How is the steering feel and effort on the FRS compared to the M3?

FR-S is lighter and a little bit less feedback but still quite good, especially for an electrically assisted unit

[Spaghetti Yo]

Originally Posted by lourenco

I liked the heavy steering feel on the M3. I am looking to purchase a FRS. How is the steering feel and effort on the FRS compared to the M3?

I find the FRS steering feels a bit sharper and more direct. Mind you, my M3 was 650hp+ with full track suspension on sticky PS2's so it drove more like a german cruise missile.

People think I'm retarded when I say I have more fun in my FRS.

[regal]

The cars couldn't be more different. I mean 100k mi E46 M3's routinely sell for as much or more than a new FR-S. Unless you knew the original owner it is just so risky to throw down $25k a old used vehicle. You need a emergency budget of $10k for repairs, the M3 is no doubt a once in a life-time car. But I wouldn't buy one unless I had a garage and did the work myself or had a local BMW mechanic I could really trust.

But the E46 has very little in common with the twins, they couldn't be more different. The twins have a lot in common with the older '80s German sports cars like the E30 M3 and Porsche 944. The only fairly recent BMW even remotely similar to the twins was the Z3MC and those still sell for $30k.

If you are a BMW enthusiast of old that loved the E30, the twins are perfect. But an E46 is an entirely different animal with huge difference in power, size, and weight.

[Rampage]

In my opinion, the E46 might be the best looking BMW ever. I love it. However, I will never buy one because I have learned the hard way that German cars are high dollar PITA cars to maintain and their reliability sucks. Never again!