Basically zero toe... - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

iaclimber4 · 11-15-2014, 11:49 AM

So i got an alignment, since i haven't had one done since i bought the car 2 years ago. The front toe .01 and .02 L/R.

The rear is .07 and .1, so toed out. I've read that most autocrossers prefer a toe-in in the rear. My question is is the rear to essentially zero rear toe? or would it be better to zero and possibly get it toed in a bit.

Use: street with ~monthly autocrossing.

Thanks

EDIT: NM figured it out, toed in just a touch, feels better....

renfield90 · 11-16-2014, 03:56 PM

Find a different alignment shop next time. .01/.02 in the front is a little sloppy, they should be able to hit 0. If you know any local autocrossers they can probably point you in the right direction.

plucas · 11-16-2014, 04:11 PM

Toe-in on the rear is good. It gives the car stability under braking.

CSG Mike · 11-16-2014, 07:24 PM

Nothing wrong with 0 toe if you can handle it.

DarkSunrise · 11-16-2014, 09:22 PM

I tried 0 toe on basically stock suspension for my last track weekend. I'm also running slightly more front camber than rear:

Front: -1.4L, -1.5R
Rear: -1.0L, -1.4R

The balance felt good. I still got some understeer, but at least it's pretty stable on turn-in and trail-braking, and you can provoke the rear under power.

CSG Mike · 11-16-2014, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I tried 0 toe on basically stock suspension for my last track weekend. I'm also running slightly more front camber than rear:

Front: -1.4L, -1.5R
Rear: -1.0L, -1.4R

The balance felt good. I still got some understeer, but at least it's pretty stable on turn-in and trail-braking, and you can provoke the rear under power.

Exactly how it should be.

Get some more front camber!

DarkSunrise · 11-17-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Exactly how it should be.

Get some more front camber!

Haha I know. Working on it. There's not much clearance at the strut, so I may need camber plates or coilovers.

mla163 · 11-17-2014, 09:53 AM

It's a little hard to get super precise on an alignment rack. It may read at 0.0000" toe, but there is enough play in suspension bushings, etc that you might be good for 0.0x" toe. Same with camber.

Measure with a ruler, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

renfield90 · 11-17-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mla163

It's a little hard to get super precise on an alignment rack. It may read at 0.0000" toe, but there is enough play in suspension bushings, etc that you might be good for 0.0x" toe. Same with camber.

Measure with a ruler, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

If that's the case then it's time to refresh the suspension bushings! I had toe set to 0 on my old car back when it was around 160k miles on the clock. It still measured exactly that til the day it died. If it had drifted though, the last thing you want is for it to have a head start on the way to a bad place.

I also feel a shop that will take the time to get exactly 0 is a shop that takes pride in doing it right, and they're a lot less likely to fail in tightening something properly leading to the alignment staying true for longer. Since we're sharing proverbs...an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure.

CSG Mike · 11-17-2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mla163

It's a little hard to get super precise on an alignment rack. It may read at 0.0000" toe, but there is enough play in suspension bushings, etc that you might be good for 0.0x" toe. Same with camber.

Measure with a ruler, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

A skilled tech can get it dead on, every time. This is what sets aside someone with a "good enough" mentality and a "perfect" mentality. The amount of time it takes to get "perfect" is the same as "good enough", if the tech is talented and cares enough.

Hoosier Daddy · 11-18-2014, 01:40 AM

Or you could set the toe like F1 and NASCAR teams do, with string.

http://i.imgur.com/3WXBmc5.jpg

Let's be honest, a second or third significant digit past the decimal isn't so significant...

iaclimber4 · 11-26-2014, 10:05 PM

oh hell, i thought this was a dead thread, didn't realize people posted. thanks!

So i ran it the other sunday at an autocross event that was on a track. Even with minimal toe-in on the rear, the car felt better than it ever has. Really planted and much less oversteer. Still a little bit of oversteer on the sweepers, but under slight power. Actually thinking about increasing the stiffness of the front sway (20mm whiteline). I've only been autocrossing about a year, so wanted to play around with the settings now that i have a little bit of seat time...

11-15-2014, 11:49 AM	#1
iaclimber4 Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S MT Location: Florida Posts: 68 Thanks: 8 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Basically zero toe... So i got an alignment, since i haven't had one done since i bought the car 2 years ago. The front toe .01 and .02 L/R. The rear is .07 and .1, so toed out. I've read that most autocrossers prefer a toe-in in the rear. My question is is the rear to essentially zero rear toe? or would it be better to zero and possibly get it toed in a bit. Use: street with ~monthly autocrossing. Thanks EDIT: NM figured it out, toed in just a touch, feels better.... Last edited by iaclimber4; 11-15-2014 at 10:16 PM.

11-16-2014, 09:22 PM	#5
DarkSunrise Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S) Location: USA Posts: 5,798 Thanks: 2,187 Thanked 4,243 Times in 2,221 Posts Mentioned: 48 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	I tried 0 toe on basically stock suspension for my last track weekend. I'm also running slightly more front camber than rear: Front: -1.4L, -1.5R Rear: -1.0L, -1.4R The balance felt good. I still got some understeer, but at least it's pretty stable on turn-in and trail-braking, and you can provoke the rear under power. __________________ "Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time." 2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build

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11-16-2014, 03:56 PM	#2
renfield90 The Stig's German cousin Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 FR-S Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 1,071 Thanks: 140 Thanked 519 Times in 345 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Find a different alignment shop next time. .01/.02 in the front is a little sloppy, they should be able to hit 0. If you know any local autocrossers they can probably point you in the right direction.

11-16-2014, 04:11 PM	#3
plucas Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: Subaru Location: Everywhere Posts: 185 Thanks: 117 Thanked 227 Times in 103 Posts Mentioned: 32 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Toe-in on the rear is good. It gives the car stability under braking.

11-16-2014, 07:24 PM	#4
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,562 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,211 Times in 6,854 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	Nothing wrong with 0 toe if you can handle it.

11-17-2014, 09:53 AM	#8
mla163 Overthinking it Join Date: May 2012 Drives: BRZ in CS Location: DC Posts: 271 Thanks: 27 Thanked 81 Times in 48 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It's a little hard to get super precise on an alignment rack. It may read at 0.0000" toe, but there is enough play in suspension bushings, etc that you might be good for 0.0x" toe. Same with camber. Measure with a ruler, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

11-18-2014, 01:40 AM	#11
Hoosier Daddy Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Drives: '13 Denali, '15 Volt, soon a BRZ? Location: CLT Posts: 61 Thanks: 3 Thanked 55 Times in 23 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Or you could set the toe like F1 and NASCAR teams do, with string. http://i.imgur.com/3WXBmc5.jpg Let's be honest, a second or third significant digit past the decimal isn't so significant...

11-26-2014, 10:05 PM	#12
iaclimber4 Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S MT Location: Florida Posts: 68 Thanks: 8 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	oh hell, i thought this was a dead thread, didn't realize people posted. thanks! So i ran it the other sunday at an autocross event that was on a track. Even with minimal toe-in on the rear, the car felt better than it ever has. Really planted and much less oversteer. Still a little bit of oversteer on the sweepers, but under slight power. Actually thinking about increasing the stiffness of the front sway (20mm whiteline). I've only been autocrossing about a year, so wanted to play around with the settings now that i have a little bit of seat time...

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