Tracking with Forced Induction

[glamcem]

it's funny when some people are still in denial about the turbo heat issues, especially when there is a 14 page thread named "Combating the heat" specifically addresses those heat issues (hence the name "combating" )

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53580

[Sterz]

Like I said before if you were talking about my post, I am not in denial about the heat issues. I very much know that they are there, I am just contributing my experiences that's all

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Sterz

Like I said before if you were talking about my post, I am not in denial about the heat issues. I very much know that they are there, I am just contributing my experiences that's all

Oh I wasn't referring to your post, I was speaking in general
as you may know there are so many die hard turbo fans ..I might be actually one of them haha since I love the turbo kick, it's just great for street but I am really skeptical about using aftermarket turbo kits for track due to heat related issues and the complexity ..I just don't really have time and energy to deal with builds, big projects, motor swaps etc.. I hope I don't have any of those big issues with my SC kit, if I ever do I will most likely get a Camaro 1LE and keep it stock (except some brakes and suspension mods)

[mike the snake]

Heat issues:

Coolant temps,

Oil temps,

Melting fans,

Engine bay temps/heat soak:

Coolant temps seem to be solved by adding radiator/fans/shroud

Oil temps seem to be solved with an oil cooler

Melting fans is still an issue IMO, but so far I haven't seen anyone try adding a physical heat shield between the DP and fans, just heat wrap and heat coatings on the header and downpipe.
I think adding a bit of heat shielding would help with the fans melting, and it's something I'll be adding to my car soon.

Engine bay temps can be lowered with vented hood, other vents (fender garnish vents, skidplate with trip strips like I've done), front grill mods.

SO, if one were to have these mods, including the heat shielding between the fans and DP, is this enough?

What is the consensus on exactly what is minimally needed for a turboed car to run on track without any issues?

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

CCW isn't the best for logging, due to consecutive decreasing radius turns, but we'll at least see where the equilibrium is.

I can bring melted fans for you to see in person; it's not like we're making up these issues.

That's a lot of power; do you have upgraded axles?

Is melting fans an issue with SC'd 86's with aftermarket headers as well, or just mainly (key word) with Turbo'd 86's?

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by HRTROB

Nice numbers. Any chance we can see the baseline run of the same car on the same dyno?

Also, a Mustang can be calibrated to read the same as a Dynojet. There are even some Mustangs that read higher. That's why it's important to compare delta on the same dyno.

http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/09/ex...l#Mustang_Dyno

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...yno-jet-2.html

Take a look at the poster for that link and when it was posted. I don't think we have the baseline graph. This car that was dyno'd is basically one of his (the tuner's) "R&D" cars. The tuner and owner have been tinkering and playing with the tune to find stuff out for months now. I'm not sure a "baseline" from stock could have been established then.

However, knowing the tuner, the mustang was most likely NOT in "dynojet" mode. He values accuracy far more than sheer numbers. This particular dyno is one of the lowest reading dynos in the state. I think it's only beaten by the local maha (sp?) dyno in terms of low-reading numbers.

Anyway, those who know nelsmar know that he doesn't go chasing peak hp instead of reliable power everywhere possible.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by OjiGeorge

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63231

Not quite as much as the entire bezel. But you still retain signal lights.

Well changing the lights to Spyder headlights with the signal integrated you could replace the whole bezel to a grill type air-flow. In theory if you had the winjets you could also wire the DRL led strip to the blinkers, and still use the whole bezel for increased air-flow. Just a thought.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Heat issues:

Coolant temps,

Oil temps,

Melting fans,

Engine bay temps/heat soak:

Coolant temps seem to be solved by adding radiator/fans/shroud

Oil temps seem to be solved with an oil cooler

Melting fans is still an issue IMO, but so far I haven't seen anyone try adding a physical heat shield between the DP and fans, just heat wrap and heat coatings on the header and downpipe.
I think adding a bit of heat shielding would help with the fans melting, and it's something I'll be adding to my car soon.

Engine bay temps can be lowered with vented hood, other vents (fender garnish vents, skidplate with trip strips like I've done), front grill mods.

SO, if one were to have these mods, including the heat shielding between the fans and DP, is this enough?

What is the consensus on exactly what is minimally needed for a turboed car to run on track without any issues?

There's no room!

[mike the snake]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's no room!

When my shop was installing my FB kit, the slim fans in the kit died on the dyno from heat before any melting occured, but they were literally touching the DP.

I recognized that this was a "ticking time bomb", even if the fans did make it through tuning, so I ended up moving the radiator forward to gain the needed clearance. It's an easy enough mod, especially while the front end is off.

Now, I have about 3/4'' inch clearance, and no issues so far with heat, but I'm going to add a piece of heat shield just to be sure.

Moving the radiator forward is mandatory IMO, street or track.

[Pete156]

Originally Posted by King Tut

If people really want a cost effective way to drop lap times they should go out and buy a SpecE30 and go racing. No better way to go quicker than in a roll caged race car that you can afford to throw away.

I have been seriously thinking of buying my daughters '87 325is and following this plan. I think with 4-5K to work with I should be able put together a decent machine. It doesn't drive anything like my 86, though specs are comparable.
Can I afford to throw it away? Sure, why not.
Just hope I can take the heat on the crowded track.

[rb6freak]

PTuning turbo - about a good solid few feet away from the radiator, behind the engine, very low, in the transmission tunnel.

That's all, thanks =)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rb6freak

PTuning turbo - about a good solid few feet away from the radiator, behind the engine, very low, in the transmission tunnel.

That's all, thanks =)

I swear I've run into you on the 133S before... I saw a rather large FMIC, and there's not very many boosted DGM BRZs in OC... There's not very many GPW CRs in OC either, although you have to know what to look for to differentiate a CR

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sterz

Hey @CSG Mike, I will be attending the upcoming 86 Cup at Streets of Willow CCW. I would definitely like you to take some logs from my car. I don't understand how heating issues can be so inconsistant. I have a Full Blown Stage 1 Base Kit, Full Blown Radiator, FBM radiator shroud, the two 12" spal fans, and the FBM Oil Cooler. I have done multiple practice drift days, and a track day with absolutely zero overheating issues. When I do drift days I run a 15 psi SD tune making 370whp on a Mustang Dyno. I did my track day on a 9 psi tune. Obviously I can log on my own but I just want you to see the live data yourself. I am definitely not saying that turbo kits dont have heat issues, because I have seen first hand that they do, even cars with similar setups than mine. I am just wondering if there is something that is causing my car to eliminate heat better than others. And I just want you to drive my car because im sure you would scare the crap out of me

The boss has given approval for us to cover your track day entry cost (you'll still need to cover everything else, but your entry will be covered by us).

Please PM me your registration info.

[rb6freak]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I swear I've run into you on the 133S before... I saw a rather large FMIC, and there's not very many boosted DGM BRZs in OC... There's not very many GPW CRs in OC either, although you have to know what to look for to differentiate a CR

That's where I do most of my testing after a tune change. I've hit that road probably 100 times in the past month or two. So, yeah, probably me :-)

p.s. I lost you with these acronyms - GPW, CRs