Toyota FT-86 @ VLN : report / pictures

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I see where ScionFRS is coming from and I kind of agree with him only because over the years sports cars started to perform better than there predecessors. The only sports vehicles that have shown little improvements generally comes from Japan. Dave your 97 type R is quicker in stock form than a 2011 civic Si. That's 14 years for fucks sake!!! Compare the handling and performance of lets say a Mustang GT from 97 to now. It's a huge difference. My only gripe that I have is that I wish the FT came with .5 more liters since it seems like 2 liters is played out. It was good in the 90's but this is 2011. Progress!!!

actually because its 2011 most car makers are going smaller for engine displacement I mean GM just announced they were gonna build 1.0 and 1.3 4 pots and ford is working on a new light weight 2.5 v6

if anthing going bigger in displacement would be moving into the past when we had crazy big motors like 7.3 and what not. the future of cars is smaller lighter and fuel efficent.

also your comparision is kinda void as you compared a type r to a si than a mustang to a mustang. Lets compare a 97 mustang to daves ITR and you will see the mustands 4.6 V8 was rated for 215hp (upped to 225 in 98 then 260 in 99) while the ITR was rated for 200 and was much much faster on track stock than the mustang. I will not discredit the improvement of the mustang but when you go from a crappy design that hasnt been changed for a number of years to a brand new engine than yes its a massive improvement.

Lets do a more fair comparsion how about 90s si vs now si there is no 97 si so I will used a 95 as well as a 98 the 95 si was rated for 137 and the 98 si was rated for 160 and now the si is 201 and please note that you compared a sportscar to a commuter car as well. I did a quick search and found the best time I could for a mustang around the ring and while it is only the 05 4.6 v8 it had a bunch of mods and the best time I found was 8:49 which is slower than a factory type r and that just shows you driver and handeling do more for you than power

also if I wanted to use a terrible agurment about comparing cars of the same I could of always said well if you look at the GTRs back then to the GTR now thats a massive improvement from the 90s or brought up the fact that the z went from 300hp with the 300zx to 331hp with the 370 and thats a 21 year jump with a modest hp increase

also i could of same to be most fair we should compare the original fb motor to the ft86 fb motor which the original is rated for 145 and the ft86 is rated for 200HP thats a massive improvement on a engine that has been out since 2010

either way tho the saying remains true

fast cheap reliable <-- you can only choose 2

[madfast]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I think if they eventually gave the car a high performance/low amenities model with around 300hp they could get away with selling them for about $30k? Would you agree?

no. bad business move. imo wont happen. for scion the price would be too high. for subaru, it would interfere with the WRX. the rumors of a toyota or lexus version in the far future? maybe. a high po version of the one we have now? i dont think so.

the best idea is for TRD and STI parts. a la carte options for those who want to pay, and nothing for those who dont... not a huge stretch since TRD parts are already available for scions. all subaru has to do is rebrand them STI...

[SUB-FT86]

A lot of the cars you just mentioned comes from which country Mr.Jay? If you want me to play fair then how about this then. Compare Daves car to the DC5 type R and you will see the improvements aren't there either. The DC2 type R is pretty much superior to its sucessor. You know this but you're being naive as hell. Im not against Japanese sports cars but I am also not naive to notice the changes in most of them. I also never said that all Jap cars are like that. The 300zx from the 90's was much more expensive than its sucessors. It started at 40+k for the turbo model. The base model was closer to a 350z in price and had only 220 hp.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

Surely that doesn't add up to 350 lbs . . . it can't? I'd love to believe you put I just don't see it happening.

Anyway, any idea if removing the sun roof alters structural ridgity? Would it be better just to shop around for a non-sunroof model? I'm at those crossroads for my car

I weighed it on a scale, don't know what to tell you. Removing the sunroof will lower the center of gravity, but adding in the carbon roof will retain rigidity. Aside from that, I'll be running a cage for more rigidity. There is no non-sunroof model, they all have the glass. Only a select few that were produced in low numbers don't open the glass, but still has it.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

A lot of the cars you just mentioned comes from which country Mr.Jay? If you want me to play fair then how about this then. Compare Daves car to the DC5 type R and you will see the improvements aren't there either. The DC2 type R is pretty much superior to its sucessor. You know this but you're being naive as hell. Im not against Japanese sports cars but I am also not naive to notice the changes in most of them. I also never said that all Jap cars are like that. The 300zx from the 90's was much more expensive than its sucessors. It started at 40+k for the turbo model. The base model was closer to a 350z in price and had only 220 hp.

all the cars I mention are USDM which I figure is the only fair way to go about it considering you can't really judge a car comapred to one you could never buy anyways since it wouldnt be a option the dc5 type r fits this discription

Actually I don't know this and you don't know this there is no such think as a dc5 type r in north america and I was using example unlike you were comparing 2 cars of the same model from different generations as oppose to 2 cars from different classes from different generations which makes no sense at all

I'm no defending the lack of improvement I just wont be judge and jury on something I actually don't know

if you want to play fair than start making fair camparsions instead of just assuming I'm defending what you are attacking when really I'm just breaking down what you say and pointing out that its a flawed rebuttal

btw I love this

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

A lot of the cars you just mentioned comes from which country Mr.Jay? If you want me to play fair then how about this then. Compare Daves car to the DC5 type R and you will see the improvements aren't there either.

you ask where the cars are from then talk about palying fair by mention a USDM car and comparing it to a JDM ONLY car that you never driven and really know nothing about. I have driven a K20A powered Type-S and while I wouldnt say it was better than a ITR cause it wasnt the motor and transmission were a massive improvement over the USDM type-s so i can only imange what it would of been like given the entire suspension setup between the USDM type s and the JDM type R are different

[Dave-ROR]

To be fair to Sub's point, Japanese reviewers stated many times that the DC2R was preferred over the DC5R, especially early on.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

all the cars I mention are USDM which I figure is the only fair way to go about it considering you can't really judge a car comapred to one you could never buy anyways since it wouldnt be a option the dc5 type r fits this discription

Actually I don't know this and you don't know this there is no such think as a dc5 type r in north america and I was using example unlike you were comparing 2 cars of the same model from different generations as oppose to 2 cars from different classes from different generations which makes no sense at all

I'm no defending the lack of improvement I just wont be judge and jury on something I actually don't know

if you want to play fair than start making fair camparsions instead of just assuming I'm defending what you are attacking when really I'm just breaking down what you say and pointing out that its a flawed rebuttal

btw I love this



you ask where the cars are from then talk about palying fair by mention a USDM car and comparing it to a JDM ONLY car that you never driven and really know nothing about. I have driven a K20A powered Type-S and while I wouldnt say it was better than a ITR cause it wasnt the motor and transmission were a massive improvement over the USDM type-s so i can only imange what it would of been like given the entire suspension setup between the USDM type s and the JDM type R are different

This doesn't answer my question. I asked you where did they come from not where was the cars sold at.

[Nostalgia1987]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

It was centered in the race car. Looks like a production gauge cluster to me.

Instrumental panel setup pretty much identical to that of the current gen impreza wrx. I thought Toyota might of gone with their own unique varient.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm not familiar at all with their classing rules, but you likely can't run an FT86 in a production class yet as there's probably a requirement that it's a.. well production car. So they ran it in a more open class. That would be my guess.

Good guess. Posted in the other thread:

Originally Posted by r1vale

The reason why they had to start in Sp3, and would not have been allowed to start in V3 is a little complex. Basically it's down to the very close to stock character of the V3 category(and all the other V classes), where you're allowed to modify almost nothing, except for mandatory safety features like a rollcage, fire extinguisher, etc.
The only things performance wise you're allowed to change are basically: brake pads, shock absorbers/coils and the exhaust (except for the manifold). Plus the power output has to be stock (+- 5%).
And there you've got the biggest problem with the FT at this point: At the moment it's still a prototype, which means you've got no existing stock configuration as reference points. And these reference points are very important for this class, as it's main goal is to provide a cheap way to race and to balance every car's performance until they are all equally fast. And with a prototype like the FT, you won't be able to do that, as the specs are still unknown and might even change a bit from time to time, due to the ongoing development of the car.
ON top of that things like the Ft's "wing" or the additional bodywork in the front probably wouldn't be legal in this class, even though i don't think they provide a big performance gain.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This doesn't answer my question. I asked you where did they come from not where was the cars sold at.

my bad misread that part

well the mustang is made here and the other cars are made in japan but thats the point you grip was about Japanese cars

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

To be fair to Sub's point, Japanese reviewers stated many times that the DC2R was preferred over the DC5R, especially early on.

I would agree the DC2 ITR is a very special car IMO

[DRACHENV6]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I think if they eventually gave the car a high performance/low amenities model with around 300hp they could get away with selling them for about $30k? Would you agree?

I would bite if they offered a 300hp car for less than 30k. It would be a good buy if they then built the engines for F.I. reliability/power like they built the 2jz supras. The power to weight ratio and mod potential would be insane.

[ft86cbx]

Some more images here

[Kiteless]

Originally Posted by ft86cbx

Some more images here

Wow! Soooo close to the ground in that hard rough corner. These 2 corners in the Ring are some of my fav in a powerful RWD car in GT5. :p



- Jason

[themali]

Originally Posted by Michel

Depends on material. They've used a complex cage though, connecting/welded to the A-pillar with thick frames so it's not exactly lightweight.

My bet is ~2700lbs from the dealership with a few options.

This is probably the most realistic estimate. Anything below is pure fantasy.