Motortrend: 1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI!

[Grip Ronin]

Originally Posted by Connoisseur

Have you considered tracking a 400hp FRS? Some dude who owns Crawford performance has an article in a R&T mag I have that says he has a 400hp BRZ that uses a turbo from the JDM STI to achieve that performance.

i have considered it, the car could really use the power but i dont like the maintenance of a turbo car. not to mention the weight. im patiently waiting for intake manifolds and cams to be produced to stay n/a

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Grip Ronin

i have considered it, the car could really use the power but i dont like the maintenance of a turbo car. not to mention the weight. im patiently waiting for intake manifolds and cams to be produced to stay n/a

I'd like to see the results of an N/A modified FA20.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Connoisseur

I'd like to see the results of an N/A modified FA20.

How wild of a result are you expecting? 250hp is probably the highest you will ever see a FA20 n/a, with most averaging 180-200whp with big mods.

But at that point its not about HP its about rotation. FR-s/BRZ should dive into corners and go WOT at corners without spinning wheels ease. A much different approach to performance than just looking for power output.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

How wild of a result are you expecting? 250hp is probably the highest you will ever see a FA20 n/a, with most averaging 180-200whp with big mods.

But at that point its not about HP its about rotation. FR-s/BRZ should dive into corners and go WOT at corners without spinning wheels ease. A much different approach to performance than just looking for power output.

250hp? Sold. It will easily be in RX-7 territory then.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Connoisseur

250hp? Sold. It will easily be in RX-7 territory then.

ehh.. gotta understand that 250~280whp on the FA20 is almost unstreetable. Heavly aggresive cams, ITB, e85 or parallel fuel setup, Stand along ECU, nearly overhalling all internals for lighter, forged peices.

You will likely spend x2-x3 times the amount of money in producing just that amount of power vs forced induction.

If you want performance but keeping it n/a, while keeping price-per-performance ratios balanced id look into EZ30 H-6 Swap.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

ehh.. gotta understand that 250~280whp on the FA20 is almost unstreetable. Heavly aggresive cams, ITB, e85 or parallel fuel setup, Stand along ECU, nearly overhalling all internals for lighter, forged peices.

You will likely spend x2-x3 times the amount of money in producing just that amount of power vs forced induction.

If you want performance but keeping it n/a, while keeping price-per-performance ratios balanced id look into EZ30 H-6 Swap.

Swap the engine? No way, anyway I'm not the racetrack type of person. I'm pretty much going to do only an exhaust like from Borla.

[BlaineWasHere]

I had a MKV GTI.

It's literally a MUCH better car in every way, except when you are driving on edge, then the FR-S is better. But literally that's it. I dynoed at 229WHP and 281WTQ on stock turbo.

No regrets on replacing it with the FR-S though

[jonnyozero3]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

ehh.. gotta understand that 250~280whp on the FA20 is almost unstreetable. Heavly aggresive cams, ITB, e85 or parallel fuel setup, Stand along ECU, nearly overhalling all internals for lighter, forged peices.

You will likely spend x2-x3 times the amount of money in producing just that amount of power vs forced induction.

If you want performance but keeping it n/a, while keeping price-per-performance ratios balanced id look into EZ30 H-6 Swap.

I would trade my BRZ in a heartbeat for a BRZ with a FA30 H6. They could even de-tune it a bit for mpg so it's about 275hp and it'd still be a Porsche chasing monster.

[eklectic8]

I traded in my 2007 MKV GTI for the FR-S. I do miss the turbo, but nothing puts a smile on my face like cutting up the curves and getting loose with the FR-S. Throw a turbo in there (which I plan to do) and it makes for a better driving car than the GTI overall. Oh yeah and no one else mentioned this, but trust me..the ladies like the FR-S much more than the GTI just based on looks overall. I have heard this many many times over in owning both cars!

[zohare]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

I had a MKV GTI.

It's literally a MUCH better car in every way, except when you are driving on edge, then the FR-S is better. But literally that's it. I dynoed at 229WHP and 281WTQ on stock turbo.

No regrets on replacing it with the FR-S though

^^ What he said! I know I can easily hit 300ft lbs in a GTI... But I have a 260hp+ fwd car already... it's not the same. I drove a GTI and yes, more practical, daily though- I found it intensely boring... It is more practical. Does get better MPG, has more room, and is slightly more comfortable, can have four doors, but if I had one, I STILL would have traded it in for my FR-S. I traded in a 280hp FWD Eclipse BTW for my FR-S. It would SMOOOKEEE my Fr-s in a straight line, but it's just not the same. I drove a Lexus is350 not long ago, and honestly- I would prefer it over a GTI. It's already 300hp, AND RWD. Surprising fun to drive actually... it's a 75% (as in start to drive it past that and it's no longer much fun... Scary is more applicable. Feels muscle car ish. Heavy, soft, boatish, easily roasts the tires... all of which can be fixed) car I'll admit that, but that's why I ended up in my FR-S. I hit the limits and it's just like... oh. Woops. Need tires. Hahaha. Accidentally got a bit crooked coming off an on ramp at about 80mph... was it terrifying? Yes. Did I kill myself NOOO.... SO tired of the misconceptions that follow RWD cars... "DANGEROUS"... gimme a break. Stay within your limits. I'd rather spin than understeer into a tree...

[zohare]

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

I would trade my BRZ in a heartbeat for a BRZ with a FA30 H6. They could even de-tune it a bit for mpg so it's about 275hp and it'd still be a Porsche chasing monster.

OOohh.... Cayman S in a Scion body XD XD... that or they could give us a 2GR-FSE version and call it a supra... 280hp+ Toms did it!

[Grip Ronin]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

ehh.. gotta understand that 250~280whp on the FA20 is almost unstreetable. Heavly aggresive cams, ITB, e85 or parallel fuel setup, Stand along ECU, nearly overhalling all internals for lighter, forged peices.

You will likely spend x2-x3 times the amount of money in producing just that amount of power vs forced induction.

If you want performance but keeping it n/a, while keeping price-per-performance ratios balanced id look into EZ30 H-6 Swap.

Id love to daily this car with big cams and itbs

[acro]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

ehh.. gotta understand that 250~280whp on the FA20 is almost unstreetable. Heavly aggresive cams, ITB, e85 or parallel fuel setup, Stand along ECU, nearly overhalling all internals for lighter, forged peices.

You will likely spend x2-x3 times the amount of money in producing just that amount of power vs forced induction.

If you want performance but keeping it n/a, while keeping price-per-performance ratios balanced id look into EZ30 H-6 Swap.

I agree 250 to 280 who will be difficult to achieve but would be an absolute. Monster . I think a standalone ecu likely won't be needed. The ecutek guys appear to have full control of the ecu even able to add boost control with the ecu directly.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by acro

I agree 250 to 280 who will be difficult to achieve but would be an absolute. Monster . I think a standalone ecu likely won't be needed. The ecutek guys appear to have full control of the ecu even able to add boost control with the ecu directly.

When you start adding big air especially from ITBs, a Standalone is almost necessary to aggressively adjust the timing. More so if you want to tune on a very large table.