New Official Toyota Trailer! First Video Featuring Production FR-S / FT-86

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sony

HID's (Xenon's, Heavy Metal Halides, HMI's and MSR's) are the only types of lamp that REQUIRE a projector housing, both Halogen's and LED's can use plain reflector only type housings but HID's require condenser optics for focused and controlled light output.

That, like his post, is completely wrong. There are two standard automotive HID bulb types, S and R (D1S/D1R/D2S/D2R/D4S at least as different models of those types). Would you like to guess why the R is called a D1R/D2R? It's for relfector housings.

This is a D2R bulb (assuming the site it's hosting on allows linking):


Some older Acuras, Mercedes, Nissans, etc used them. Almost everyone uses projectors now as they are far superior but reflector based HIDs absolutely exist.

you also cannot restrike a lamp within 10 or fifteen minutes of turning the lamp off...the lamp MUST cool to a certain temperature before it can be re-struck, unless you have what is called a "hot re-strike ballast" which is more expensive and seldom used in cars.

This means having two separate HID projector housings, one for highs and one for lows is not feasible, as the constant re-striking of the high beams would kill their lamp life as well as not being able to turn your high beams back on for 15 minutes after turning them off would not be a good thing. This is why on production cars with HID's the high beams are created by ether physically moving the lamp within the projector housing to change the lights focal point OR having a second high wattage Halogen housing mounted NEXT to the HID housing. You will notice in cars with the latter option, the high beams only add the Halogen's to the HID's and do not turn the HID's off due to the previously mentioned hot re-strike complication.

Oh and BTW you can have auto HIDs running for HOURS and turn them off and back on 1 second later. I've had HIDs in cars for 8 years and have never had to let them cool to reignite them. Yes, it's not good for bulb life but it's not an issue either. Lights are a safety item, they would NEVER make it into a car if you couldn't use them because you turned them off pulling up to someones house to avoid lighting up the neighbors (of their) house, etc.

As for the rest, you can run halogens as highs as you said, or bixenon (no point in the expense of second set of housings, balasts, bulbs etc to run two seperate units one for low and one for high) and for bixenon a flap moves out of the way allowing light to bounce off the bottom of the projector making it a high beam, the bulb never moves.

Obviously this is different from entertainment systems, but please don't spread misinformation.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

+1 also keep in mind that HID doesn't always have a halogen hi-beam. Google bi-xenon projectors.

He didn't say always, he said usually has halogen high beams as many HID equipped cars do, although I'd guess that trend is dying in favor of bixenons but I haven't exactly bothered to count :P

[rL-gT]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That, like his post, is completely wrong. There are two standard automotive HID bulb types, S and R (D1S/D1R/D2S/D2R/D4S at least as different models of those types). Would you like to guess why the R is called a D1R/D2R? It's for relfector housings.

This is a D2R bulb (assuming the site it's hosting on allows linking):


Some older Acuras, Mercedes, Nissans, etc used them. Almost everyone uses projectors now as they are far superior but reflector based HIDs absolutely exist.

Tada. OEM IS300 / GS400 Headlights.

[Ryephile]

It's true. The '02, '03, and '04 MINI's I owned with optional HID's used D2R bulbs in a reflector housing. '05+ MINI's with HID's use projector lenses whereas the standard halogens use reflectors. My Exige has a halogen low beam with a projector beam lens, and a halogen high beam with a reflector.

FWIW, bi-xenon are catching on quickly. It's becoming cheaper to pay for the motorized shutter mechanism than a whole separate bulb, wiring connector, and reflector/lens section in the light cluster. Add to that, they can charge an obscene amount to add one or two servo's for auto-level and/or steering lights.

LED's, being so flexible, can be used pretty much however you please; direct, diffused, reflected, or projected.

[Sony]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That, like his post, is completely wrong. There are two standard automotive HID bulb types, S and R (D1S/D1R/D2S/D2R/D4S at least as different models of those types). Would you like to guess why the R is called a D1R/D2R? It's for relfector housings.

This is a D2R bulb (assuming the site it's hosting on allows linking):


Some older Acuras, Mercedes, Nissans, etc used them. Almost everyone uses projectors now as they are far superior but reflector based HIDs absolutely exist.

Noted, but other than that...what else about my post is wrong...in my industry we never use reflector optics in HID fixtures. You must be very well versed in optics...please enlighten me...me a humble lowly lighting technician who works on this crap for a living can't possibly know as much as you do...or so you make it seem. So you caught me on one small area of automotive lighting that I was not aware of...pardon me.

The D2R was offered as a replacement on my Tacoma...I forgot about that...it's use however removed all High Beam abilities unless you bought it with a motorized Bi-Xenon kit and special shroud that it mounted in.

The rest of my post however was still correct...HID's cannot be restruck while hot without special expensive ballasts, and most OEM HID's are ether motorized for high or low beam effects in some way or paired with a high wattage halogen in a separate housing.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sony

Noted, but other than that...what else about my post is wrong...in my industry we never use reflector optics in HID fixtures. You must be very well versed in optics...please enlighten me...me a humble lowly lighting technician who works on this crap for a living can't possibly know as much as you do...or so you make it seem. So you caught me on one small area of automotive lighting that I was not aware of...pardon me.

The D2R was offered as a replacement on my Tacoma...I forgot about that...it's use however removed all High Beam abilities unless you bought it with a motorized Bi-Xenon kit and special shroud that it mounted in.

Updated my post with some more. Feel free to go back and read it.

Automotive lighting is clearly different from your industry in the way it's applied. I wouldn't even start to say anything about your industries application as I have no experience there.

And if you want evidence of them being able to reignite instantly I can go shoot a video, I have a few balasts and bulbs sitting on the shelf in the garage.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sony

The rest of my post however was still correct...HID's cannot be restruck while hot without special expensive ballasts, and most OEM HID's are ether motorized for high or low beam effects in some way or paired with a high wattage halogen in a separate housing.

$15 digital balasts reignite/restrike. I have both old school balasts and some new cheap digital ones, both reignite instantly. It's a mix now on bixenon and seperate halogens. Most are starting to go towards bixenons since it's easy and cheap.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by frsbrz

Does anyone think that the above post (#228) should be taken seriously?

lol no, nice matrixing effect though. (and I don't mean the movie lol)

[Sony]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Updated my post with some more. Feel free to go back and read it.

Automotive lighting is clearly different from your industry in the way it's applied. I wouldn't even start to say anything about your industries application as I have no experience there.

And if you want evidence of them being able to reignite instantly I can go shoot a video, I have a few balasts and bulbs sitting on the shelf in the garage.

Noted, apparenty hot-restrike ballasts are far more common in the automotive industry. I can understand why, however since they use much higher ignite voltage, they shorten lamp life even further. It's the difference of using 15,000 volts to strike the lamp or 50,000 volts, what happens when you strike the lamp if you were to watch it under a microscope you would see pieces of the electrodes be blasted away from the igniting arc, the higher the voltage, the more damage is done. I highly recommend one lets the lamp cool before re-igniting the arc if at all possible.

In the entertainment business, we use 700 watt to 1500 watt lamps (sometimes even up to 10,000 watts) with 700 or less hour lifespans...each strike takes about an hour of lamp life away so usually we strike all the lamps at the beginning of the day and leave them running for 12+ hours until the show is over...replacing a $400 lamp is not fun, especially 80ft in the air over a stage.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sony

Noted, apparenty hot-restrike ballasts are far more common in the automotive industry. I can understand why, however since they use much higher ignite voltage, they shorten lamp life even further. It's the difference of using 15,000 volts to strike the lamp or 50,000 volts, what happens when you strike the lamp if you were to watch it under a microscope you would see pieces of the electrodes be blasted away from the igniting arc, the higher the voltage, the more damage is done. I highly recommend one lets the lamp cool before re-igniting the arc if at all possible.

In the entertainment business, we use 700 watt to 1500 watt lamps with 700 or less hour lifespans...each strike takes about an hour of lamp life away to usually we strike all the lamps at the beginning of the day and leave them running for 12+ hours until the show is over...replacing a $400 lamp is not fun, especially 80ft in the air over a stage.

My old Phillips ballast shows a max output of 23,000volts, so I'd guess auto ones ignite with 20k or so (just assuming the max is allowing excess room). Auto ones tend to last longer but at FAR less wattage (most are between 35 and 50W IIRC) and produce less light obviously. The bulbs requirements, heat generation, etc are obviously vastly different.

But yes, it's bad to turn them back on quickly because of the life issue although I'm at 8 years and my old bulbs are still rocking so it's not something to stress about in the automotive application... and I even bought mine used.. so they are likely have 10 years on those bulbs.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by frsbrz

That's a screen capture. It even shows at one time on the youtube link.

I know that. Matrixing is your brain seeing things that aren't there because you've seen them elsewhere before.. faces in windows/mirrors/etc, napkin stains that look like Jesus, clouds that look like cars, etc.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by frsbrz

How is that not there?

Well I see female genitala in the same image you see that.. sooo.. :shrug: except no tubes.. or you can see madona with her legs spread and that pointy bra she had back int he day, or likely 20 other things.

As compared to yours, one of the horns is missing as is the thing in the middle sticking out of it's head, and the scale is off.

In other words, you are reading way too much into this.

[Sony]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

My old Phillips ballast shows a max output of 23,000volts, so I'd guess auto ones ignite with 20k or so (just assuming the max is allowing excess room). Auto ones tend to last longer but at FAR less wattage (most are between 35 and 50W IIRC) and produce less light obviously. The bulbs requires, heat generation, etc are obviously vastly different.

But yes, it's bad to turn them back on quickly because of the life issue although I'm at 8 years and my old bulbs are still rocking so it's not something to stress about in the automotive application... and I even bought mine used.. so they are likely have 10 years on those bulbs.

Heh, I guess it's hard for me to comprehend being used to replacing lamps at about 400 hours, since that is whats recommended of our lamps is to replace them when half their lives are over due to the explosion risk from old lamps. Also in our industry when you change a Xenon lamp...you're required to wear kevlar/leather body armor, face shields and heavy gloves. Especially when replacing something like this

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Well I see female genitala in the same image you see that.. sooo.. :shrug: except no tubes.. or you can see madona with her legs spread and that pointy bra she had back int he day, or likely 20 other things.

As compared to yours, one of the horns is missing as is the thing in the middle sticking out of it's head, and the scale is off.

In other words, you are reading way too much into this.

I really see something but not a goat. LOL