The Nasty FR-S Review Part 2

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Not sure what point you are getting at with the above post. The FRS and BRZ held their own against all those other cars with the stock tires.... If it had extreme summer tires on it, like most if not all of the other cars, it would have done better.

I brought up the actual "tests" and should not have gone there. You are right sticky tires make a big difference. All I was getting at was there was a lot of room for improvement, in terms of performance and that its a car that falls mid pack with the hot hatch segment mostly in terms of "sports car" numbers.

That test for example shows probably its most direct competitor the Genesis being about 2 seconds quicker a lap, mostly because of the power advantage. And the Genesis in on nearly its 5th year of production.
Whether you love or hate the car, you get to pick your power level. 2.0T or 3.8 V6. And no matter if you choose the base model for 24k or top at 32k its faster around a track and on the street than the FR-S.

The MX5 is like 100 years old, but when the new model hits all rumors point to a sub 2400lbs car making 200HP.

So Toyota has some work to do to keep this car relevant in terms of performance. That's all I was saying, they have started behind the 8 ball in so many areas.

[wootwoot]

I think I understand your point. I still don't totally agree.

Toyota put those tires on the car knowing it would hurt performance. They did it, in my eyes anyway, for the "fun factor" of driving it. If you just made that one inexpensive change the car would rise from the middle of the pack despite its power disadvantage. I don't think the car is "mid pack" because if you let the thing off the chains with sticky rubber it will outrun many, if not all, cars in its price range. Not to mention many above its price range. Again, not saying it is the best thing since sliced bread, but I also think it is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing when you take the rubber into consideration. I think it is, at minimum, a solid front runner (though perhaps not the best) as opposed to a "mid-pack" car as you describe it.

My 2 cents.

[wootwoot]

Also, a 2400lb 200hp Miata would be awesome... If it ends up not being butt ugly, like every other Miata on the planet, I may trade in. I doubt that will become a reality.... But you never know.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

In less than 25 seconds I did a national search on Autotrader and Cars.com and found 400 listings, there were no Hatchbacks listed for under 26k new. (One Sedan at 25k) And in a large market like Chicagoland, you are not going to get one for much less than 500 under MSRP.



0-60 is not really my concern, like I said most of the time it is ok. But when you really get down to it it's just a sheep in wolfs clothing. It looks the part and maybe in other markets like Europe or Japan it's more than powerful. But in America our mass market ho-hum cars from pretty much every company will wipe it up the car in a straight line. And in terms of overall grip on paper the FR-S also does not fair to well even against hot hatches in most tests. It's a car like you said needs about 5k to be an actual sports car. That's what I am getting at.

As mentioned I have been through sports cars that are toys, did not want that again which is why I went this route. It's a stop gap car to fill the the time from when either release an STI/TRD model or Mazda or Honda build their own version of this car.



Yeah Scion owns the transport market in the city for sure, never thought of that. I don't care about the badge but I know plenty of people cant wait to rip off the "tag". Tks

dont look to autotrader. its not really possible to negotiate a price that way. plus, you still found a wrx for under 26k.

[SkitterSkotter]

I disagree with about 5-10% of what you had to say. That said, I agree with a vast majority of what you went though.

[wbradley]

Oh man my eyes are bleeding and I'm only on to reading page 2!

People take this stuff way too seriously. There is a valid point made that this car has been known to have numerous issues, not typical of most Japanese made cars. Dezoris starts with the flaws because if it was a GM or Chrysler nobody would care, it would be expected. On this car many of the flaws are totally unexpected.

I am sure the OP and virtually all of us love our cars for their redeeming values despite the issues. Perhaps it is because we love our cars so much that we expect/hope for it to be perfect.

And not everybody has the same taste in comedians.

[l0aded]

Regarding the power issue, don't want to be embarassed? Don't drag race on the streets. I get the issue though as the #1 thing people ask me is "is it fast?" and to answer honestly you probably have to go with not really.

[Nevermore]

Wow, for all the angry comments I've seen in this thread I absolutely expected a terrible, terrible review, just pure hostility and hate for the FR-S. After watching the actual review, I really can't figure out why everyone is getting so mad. The points are valid, not overdone, or hateful. He's just being honest. And geeze, if you listen to his closing statement he praises the hell out of the car. He even says the feeling he gets driving it is better than what he got from his older cars. He says all the issues don't outweigh how good the car is.

[wootwoot]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Wow, for all the angry comments I've seen in this thread I absolutely expected a terrible, terrible review, just pure hostility and hate for the FR-S. After watching the actual review, I really can't figure out why everyone is getting so mad. The points are valid, not overdone, or hateful. He's just being honest. And geeze, if you listen to his closing statement he praises the hell out of the car. He even says the feeling he gets driving it is better than what he got from his older cars. He says all the issues don't outweigh how good the car is.

Agree. Well said.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by fatoni

dont look to autotrader. its not really possible to negotiate a price that way. plus, you still found a wrx for under 26k.

My original comment was about the wrx hatch not sedan. And true all said and done with some work you'd be at around 25k after negotiation IF your area has good inventory.

Originally Posted by wbradley

Oh man my eyes are bleeding and I'm only on to reading page 2!

People take this stuff way too seriously. There is a valid point made that this car has been known to have numerous issues, not typical of most Japanese made cars. Dezoris starts with the flaws because if it was a GM or Chrysler nobody would care, it would be expected. On this car many of the flaws are totally unexpected.

I am sure the OP and virtually all of us love our cars for their redeeming values despite the issues. Perhaps it is because we love our cars so much that we expect/hope for it to be perfect.

And not everybody has the same taste in comedians.

This car specifically gets people really fired up. Mix of reasons obviously. Hopefully if anything the video just gets across that it has faults some major but it still is a good car.
Most everyone I talk to who asks about it seems to have this impression from the press it was made by the gods.

Originally Posted by l0aded

Regarding the power issue, don't want to be embarassed? Don't drag race on the streets. I get the issue though as the #1 thing people ask me is "is it fast?" and to answer honestly you probably have to go with not really.

Again from the people I talk I get the same question, is it fast? When I say no, its pretty slow there is this sense of disappointment or disbelief. I think thats the worst part.

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Wow, for all the angry comments I've seen in this thread I absolutely expected a terrible, terrible review, just pure hostility and hate for the FR-S. After watching the actual review, I really can't figure out why everyone is getting so mad. The points are valid, not overdone, or hateful. He's just being honest. And geeze, if you listen to his closing statement he praises the hell out of the car. He even says the feeling he gets driving it is better than what he got from his older cars. He says all the issues don't outweigh how good the car is.

Thanks that is really how it is.

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Wow, for all the angry comments I've seen in this thread I absolutely expected a terrible, terrible review, just pure hostility and hate for the FR-S. After watching the actual review, I really can't figure out why everyone is getting so mad. The points are valid, not overdone, or hateful. He's just being honest. And geeze, if you listen to his closing statement he praises the hell out of the car. He even says the feeling he gets driving it is better than what he got from his older cars. He says all the issues don't outweigh how good the car is.

Ok, suppose I declare that the one thing I hate is blue cars, then go out and buy a blue car, then do a review saying the car is good, but too bad it's blue - I hate blue, I'm so disappointed it's blue - at what point do you get to say "It's your own poor decision to buy a blue car".

I have a laundry list of minor things that annoy me about the FRS - things that I would change if I could... but the power was there from day one. Sports cars do NOT have to be FAST. But many people want them all to be GT cars which are fast and expensive. Like buying a soft top convertible then bitching about how structurally weak the roof is.

[FA5]

I like your review and it was funny. Good job! Your gf's part was the best.
BRZ/FR-S is a nice car but there still a lot of issue to be address.

Are you gonna come out of the part 3? I am looking forward to watch it.

[trinitron]

I feel you are exaggerating in attempt to provoke controversy. The start of the video obviously exemplifies that.

In terms of performance vehicles, the frs is slow; in terms of everything else it fairs decently.
0 to 60 times
Dodge Caravan 2012 - 7.8seconds
Camry 2012 LE - 8.7 seconds, hybrid - 7.2, v6 - 5.7
Odyssey Elite - 7.3 seconds
FRS (Manual)- 6.2 seconds

Courtesy of zeroto60times.com

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by Khyron686

Ok, suppose I declare that the one thing I hate is blue cars, then go out and buy a blue car, then do a review saying the car is good, but too bad it's blue - I hate blue, I'm so disappointed it's blue - at what point do you get to say "It's your own poor decision to buy a blue car".

I have a laundry list of minor things that annoy me about the FRS - things that I would change if I could... but the power was there from day one. Sports cars do NOT have to be FAST. But many people want them all to be GT cars which are fast and expensive. Like buying a soft top convertible then bitching about how structurally weak the roof is.

But he doesn't do anything like that in his review. He doesn't say he hated the FR-S before he bought it, nor does he even say he specifically hates it at all. Like I said, at the end of the review he says none of the problems matter because it's a great car. He doesn't hate the car at all. If he did, he would've sold it. Why keep something you hate? The guy loves the car.