Unmasking the FR-S / BRZ / FT-86 Mule

[serialk11r]

Oh woops okay you're right about that. I still don't think turbulence is an issue as there are cars that channel air into the side, and like I said wheels already have some drag when they spin because most cars come with wheels that don't have covers these days. Sucking air from a perpendicular stream isn't an issue either, because the other side of the fan is also air moving by, the static pressure is approximately equal.

I don't think you can compare directly to a helicopter because a helicopter rotor needs to balance the drag of the main rotors which is a considerable force. Since the second rotor is much smaller it needs to spin fast to generate sufficient force. Here we just want to enhance airflow a little, that is giving the spokes a little bit of angle so they push a small amount of air through the brake rotors. How much this helps, I don't know, but it's definitely better than some of the stuff I've seen. I looked up "active brake cooling" yesterday and I saw some kits for sale that were small tubes with little tiny fans hooked up, good luck with that lol.

Oh and I think heatsinking the calipers is probably a good way to prevent the fluid from boiling?

Oh another random idea, I APOLOGIZE, has anyone ever tried making something that sprays water onto the rotors when they get hot?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Oh another random idea, I APOLOGIZE, has anyone ever tried making something that sprays water onto the rotors when they get hot?

yikes...super cooling heated metal at intervals during braking makes me sqeezy..i see cracked rotors in the future with that method.

I think just air proper ducting is pretty efficient with cooling brakes..and its simple and cost-effective..i don't think we need to find other methods. I just look at what F1 does with their cars, and I don't think they haven't done a whole lot more than air ducting and using carbon rotors and pads.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Maxim

In the case of a lack of ducting, holes in the bodywork can be cut. From there, cutting a hole in the back structure behind the bodywork, and welding in a couple flat pieces of thin steel can direct airflow out towards the brakes.

It's just that you then have to cleverly disguise said holes in bodywork, not to mention get somebody to actually do this custom job, regardless of how simple in execution it really is. It's a simple solution to a simple problem.....which means it SHOULD be provided at the freaking factory.

We don't know yet that there aren't panels directing some airflow from the gaping maw on the car....it's perfectly possible that they're there. However, if they're not, that is indicative of Toyota/Subaru putting style before substance on the car, going for a sleek look rather than functional bodywork. That suggests there may be other areas of the car where the same reasoning was used.

Just something to think about. No way to tell if it's correct or not at this point.

The problem I see with punching holes in the wheel well is that the water may get in the way to rust the components. Currently when I look at production cars, the wheel well do not have air duct holes. If by doing this custom drilling and directing air, the water could potentially spilled over the duct and rust the things. That would not be nice.

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

yikes...super cooling heated metal at intervals during braking makes me sqeezy..i see cracked rotors in the future with that method.

I think just air proper ducting is pretty efficient with cooling brakes..and its simple and cost-effective..i don't think we need to find other methods. I just look at what F1 does with their cars, and I don't think they haven't done a whole lot more than air ducting and using carbon rotors and pads.

Speaking of F1, it seems that the designers direct the air from hub into the rotor for cooling. That is pretty much about it. I wonder if the same can be done for production cars like FT-86.

[WingsofWar]

im sad my thread has no rating

[dalli]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

im sad my thread has no rating

you are welcome





imagine this is production........ DROOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL*******

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Maxim

No, if you swap a wheel/tire to the opposite side of the car, the rim will be flipped backwards. It can be somewhat difficult to mentally rotate that in your head, but if you have a small fan handy you can get an easier, physical example of it. Take a fan and set it facing you, then note the direction the blades are traveling on the upper 180 degrees. Now, turn the fan so it's facing away from you. The air will be blown away from you, but the upper 180 degrees of the blade rotation will be opposite what it was before. With a car, since both left and right tires are rotating in the same direction (unlike the fan example), that means that the airflow would be reversed.

And you are right, it's about 1000rpm, depending on wheel diameter. But a fan rotating at that speed will not produce the same airflow if it has to suck air that is already traveling at high speed in a perpendicular direction. A large proportion of the possible thrust would instead be consumed in turbulance. Helicopters, with their rear tail rotars, have to counter this by increasing the tail rotational speed at between a 3:1 and 6:1 ratio with the main drive-shaft. In an automotive equivalent, this means that the rim rotation would have to increase at a multiplicative rate to the speed of the drive-shaft in order to maintain the same helical thrust on the surrounding air. Because rims are several orders of magnitude larger in diameter than the driveshaft, and connected via a reduction gear, they are always spinning at a fraction of the speed, meaning that the faster the car goes, the less effective the rims would become at producing a suction - the exact opposite of the desired effect. And the turbulance would greatly increase aerodynamic drag as well.



Something like it was tried in the 70's and 80's. However, the fan was completely separate from the rims, and it was oriented up and down, not side to side. It also functioned using a multiplicative gear-set (just like a helicopter tail rotor), as opposed to a tire rim, which uses both the transmission and differential as a reduction gear....the exact opposite. It was outlawed because it worked too well.

Sorry for the fluid dynamics and mechanical engineering lesson. I promise I'm done.

I'm aware of the history of the Brabham fan car (they got to keep their win, as they managed to prove that over 50% of the fan's energy was still for providing cooling, but the FIA closed the loophole after) but I was talking specifically about fan-blade rims.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by dalli

you are welcome





imagine this is production........ DROOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL*******

Double post to stay on topic...

How about with the Subaru-style wing?

[Spencer Strayer]

man i really wish the tail lights would've stayed the same as they were at the geneva convention....

[Spencer Strayer]

Originally Posted by dalli

you are welcome





imagine this is production........ DROOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL*******

dude whats that color called???

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Spencer Strayer

dude whats that color called???

Blurple!

[RRnold]

Looks very similar to Yamaha 0564-Deep Purple Blue Metallic

[Dragawn]

for the air ducts, wouldn't it be possible that they'll divert some of air going in the main vent to the brakes? I mean, we can't look behind that grill, can we?

As for the mule, I think it's a Subaru, just look at that spoiler! So typical for Subaru!
Same for these rims, but ofcourse Toyota could've borrowed them, but this seems unlikely to me.
And I think I've seen these taillights before on a Subaru, might be wrong. But rounder shapes is more Subaru's style than Toyota. Also a sudden change of taillights would be strange, since they said 95% of the concept car's looks gonna stay the same.

I still have hope for the FT-86! Though that unmasked mule doesnt look too bad IMO.

BTW, excellent chopping there.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Dragawn

for the air ducts, wouldn't it be possible that they'll divert some of air going in the main vent to the brakes? I mean, we can't look behind that grill, can we?

As for the mule, I think it's a Subaru, just look at that spoiler! So typical for Subaru!
Same for these rims, but ofcourse Toyota could've borrowed them, but this seems unlikely to me.
And I think I've seen these taillights before on a Subaru, might be wrong. But rounder shapes is more Subaru's style than Toyota. Also a sudden change of taillights would be strange, since they said 95% of the concept car's looks gonna stay the same.

Sorry but no, Its been confirmed by SoA that the camo cars (a total of 5 thats been spied) are nor Subaru or Toyota...they are test cars, being use by both companies at the same time. The added aero and spoiler is also not belonging to either of the two exclusively.

[Kage]

Originally Posted by Dragawn

for the air ducts, wouldn't it be possible that they'll divert some of air going in the main vent to the brakes? I mean, we can't look behind that grill, can we?

As for the mule, I think it's a Subaru, just look at that spoiler! So typical for Subaru!
Same for these rims, but ofcourse Toyota could've borrowed them, but this seems unlikely to me.
And I think I've seen these taillights before on a Subaru, might be wrong. But rounder shapes is more Subaru's style than Toyota. Also a sudden change of taillights would be strange, since they said 95% of the concept car's looks gonna stay the same.

I still have hope for the FT-86! Though that unmasked mule doesnt look too bad IMO.

BTW, excellent chopping there.

Now that you mention it the headlights (which I've grown to like actually) do look like they are from subaru, kinda has a simmilar overall shape to these

If those really are subaru's and toyota keeps their concept tails and headlights I'll be one hell of a happy camper