Visconti vs FA20Club vs Stock Tune Dyno Results

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

This Dyno is showing gains on an AT car, the tune works very different for both.

About not spending money on the motor, great for you, more money to spend in other stuff

Agreed! I wonder if anybody is working on a more dynamic FD? I'm pretty sure all I would want is more torque to the wheels instead of more than 200hp. 200 is enough for me.

[Visconti]

I would suggest running Autos in third gear.

3rd gear on the auto is in between 3rd and 4th on the manual.

4th gear on the auto is too long for a dyno pull - my 2 cents

John

[GingerExtract]

Yikes. So, when is a full tuning solution supposed to hit the market again?

[jeebus]

I like John's midrange and bump shortening more than I care about those few squirts up at the tippity top.

[LeftFootBrake]

John, I seem to recall you mentioning a couple of weeks back that you hadn't had a chance to optimise the AT tune, yet. Can you share your gut feel for whether we'll see significant improvements that get us close to the MT's 14/10 bump?

[Illusive]

The fa20 tune is a tad lean.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by LeftFootBrake

John, I seem to recall you mentioning a couple of weeks back that you hadn't had a chance to optimise the AT tune, yet. Can you share your gut feel for whether we'll see significant improvements that get us close to the MT's 14/10 bump?

I think the converter eats up a lot of the gain. But I'm not finished with the tune.

Just need to find some time and take my trip to FL to play with the auto

Originally Posted by jeebus

I like John's midrange and bump shortening more than I care about those few squirts up at the tippity top.

I also like my flat A/f ratio

[Drift-Office]

Here are my 2 cents. Bear in mind they're not meant to be criticisms, just observations based off the runs that I witnessed and help administer today. Take it for what it's worth!

Disclaimer : I bear no alliance to any one company / turner / product!

So we've all seen the above dyno charts, let's break it down a little... Here's the runs in 3rd & 4th using mechaghost's STOCK baseline with the STOCK intake with a STOCK / OEM calibration vs the AirRaid Intake :



For starters, I think the choice of intake is very important, and as you can see if you haven't already deduced it, not every aftermarket part yields POSITIVE gains. In this case, the AirRaid Intake seems to be a little more restrictive than it should be. The results speak for themselves. Note that both runs in 3rd and 4th with the intake tend to lose power @ 6400RPM, and it's fairly consistent to that end.



With that, using either tune with the afflicted intake is a challenge in itself and as you can see from the above comparison in 3rd Gear, the Visconti tune would yield more gains globally from 4100 - 6700RPM while the FA20 tune made more power past 6700rpm - redline, at a range of about 800RPM. In terms of commanded AFR, leaner is meaner in this case and the FA20 tune has made more power up top, timing not withstanding.



Now in 4th Gear, we see more of the same in terms of results and also issues faced with the AirRaid intake. We also get to see some insight into the tuning philosophies of these two different tunes. Before we get into that, some of you might be asking "how am I certain that this one AirRaid intake isn't any less restrictive than the next and that others flow better?" It just so happens that I happened to have an AVO intake that I was conducting tests on earlier last week and so, for good measure, I threw that on...

Here are the results from the Visconti Tune using the AVO intake vs the AirRaid one in 3rd & 4th :





... and then those from from the FA20 Tune in 3rd & 4th :





As you can see, while changing only the intake without changing the tune, we see that the AFR lines are completely different. As an E-Tune provider, you'll have to do this "one size fits all" sort of thing and both tunes does a good job there. The Visconti tune tends to be more conservative and that would seemingly work in all fashions of BRZ / FRS with various intakes, restrictive or otherwise. Also notice that the top end is not neutered in the case of the AVO intake as opposed to when using the AirRaid one in 3rd Gear. In 4th Gear, there's a hint of richness at the top end, for engine 'conservation' I'm guessing. The FA20 Club tune, which mechaghost has already mentioned, have been tweaked thru data logs done on street tunes. To that end, he had an advantage so all the runs with the AR Intake will naturally run better. I personally think it's a tad leaner than I'm comfortable with...

The bottom line : the combination of parts used may not necessarily be better and yield positive results. While the generic "one size fits all" tune works, gains are not always guaranteed. This is where I'll have to say going to your local dyno facility and having a competent tuner work their magic is extremely important in realizing the few extra ponies that we so need in this NA platform!

[2forme]

I'm sorry, but running 13-14 afr under WOT at 6000+ RPM is just asking for trouble. One thing goes wrong with fuel delivery and you'll get some nasty predet. Not to mention the long term effect of running that lean can develop hot spots on the piston tops. Johns tune looks a lot safer in this regard, even if it doesn't make an extra 3whp.

[gmookher]

sorry can you do a
graph of stock intake with a high flo perrin filter(i can send you mine!)
in /oe tune,fa20,visconti

vs
graph of avo intake
in /oe tune,fa20,visconti
to make it easy to see?
thx

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by virtual_bob

Here are my 2 cents. Bear in mind they're not meant to be criticisms, just observations based off the runs that I witnessed and help administer today. Take it for what it's worth!

Disclaimer : I bear no alliance to any one company / turner / product!

So we've all seen the above dyno charts, let's break it down a little... Here's the runs in 3rd & 4th using mechaghost's STOCK baseline with the STOCK intake with a STOCK / OEM calibration vs the AirRaid Intake :



For starters, I think the choice of intake is very important, and as you can see if you haven't already deduced it, not every aftermarket part yields POSITIVE gains. In this case, the AirRaid Intake seems to be a little more restrictive than it should be. The results speak for themselves. Note that both runs in 3rd and 4th with the intake tend to lose power @ 6400RPM, and it's fairly consistent to that end.



With that, using either tune with the afflicted intake is a challenge in itself and as you can see from the above comparison in 3rd Gear, the Visconti tune would yield more gains globally from 4100 - 6700RPM while the FA20 tune made more power past 6700rpm - redline, at a range of about 800RPM. In terms of commanded AFR, leaner is meaner in this case and the FA20 tune has made more power up top, timing not withstanding.



Now in 4th Gear, we see more of the same in terms of results and also issues faced with the AirRaid intake. We also get to see some insight into the tuning philosophies of these two different tunes. Before we get into that, some of you might be asking "how am I certain that this one AirRaid intake isn't any less restrictive than the next and that others flow better?" It just so happens that I happened to have an AVO intake that I was conducting tests on earlier last week and so, for good measure, I threw that on...

Here are the results from the Visconti Tune using the AVO intake vs the AirRaid one in 3rd & 4th :





... and then those from from the FA20 Tune in 3rd & 4th :





As you can see, while changing only the intake without changing the tune, we see that the AFR lines are completely different. As an E-Tune provider, you'll have to do this "one size fits all" sort of thing and both tunes does a good job there. The Visconti tune tends to be more conservative and that would seemingly work in all fashions of BRZ / FRS with various intakes, restrictive or otherwise. Also notice that the top end is not neutered in the case of the AVO intake as opposed to when using the AirRaid one in 3rd Gear. In 4th Gear, there's a hint of richness at the top end, for engine 'conservation' I'm guessing. The FA20 Club tune, which mechaghost has already mentioned, have been tweaked thru data logs done on street tunes. To that end, he had an advantage so all the runs with the AR Intake will naturally run better. I personally think it's a tad leaner than I'm comfortable with...

The bottom line : the combination of parts used may not necessarily be better and yield positive results. While the generic "one size fits all" tune works, gains are not always guaranteed. This is where I'll have to say going to your local dyno facility and having a competent tuner work their magic is extremely important in realizing the few extra ponies that we so need in this NA platform!

I would like to see these same runs but 1 graph 3rd Visconti vs fa20 & 2nd graph 4th visconti vs fa20

[Tainen]

Wonderful information Mecha and Bob.

Also another note- Mecha's BRZ baselined much higher than most other autos when we did the drift office dyno day, I believe the thinking was his light weight wheels and K&N filter helped there. Bob and/or Mechaghost can speak to that.

[ngabdala]

Aftermarket intake = waste of money with current options and performance.

I dropped in a aFe Takeda oiled filter into the stock intake and I bet I have better results than those that purchased an intake. It can be seen and felt. Love it.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

Aftermarket intake = waste of money with current options and performance.

I dropped in a aFe Takeda oiled filter into the stock intake and I bet I have better results than those that purchased an intake. It can be seen and felt. Love it.

I cut my snorkel just passed the first mount. Widemouth stock CAI baby! hahaha

But I do have an aFe Takeda coming in this week. I'm going make some time to take it down to John and see if any personalized tuning will yield any results. Plus I'll dyno it on a stock tune too.