FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Go to User CP -> Edit Options -> Posts per page.

Oh and how nice a lolcat .

I know perfectly well how to change it, I just don't care to. I'm on my laptop most of the time, rather go through pages than scroll to infinity on the small screen.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I know perfectly well how to change it, I just don't care to. I'm on my laptop most of the time, rather go through pages than scroll to infinity on the small screen.

har har, no scroll mouse?
I know you most likely knew how but other people might not know so I put it up anyway.

I'm just giving you a hard time Matador .

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

I was listing swaps I've personally seen. Not doubting a 3 rotor has been put in there, just haven't seen it.

Edit: @dragon...you know, the Formula D page does list Taka's engine as an AZ...and I never really did get a chance to look under his hood. But I swear, from looking at the front of the valve cover from his hood scoop...and listening to him go back up the hill....I swear that was a 4A. I could be COMPLETELY wrong though.

Yeah I never looked under the hood either. The ads always list him with a tC motor though.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Yeah I never looked under the hood either. The ads always list him with a tC motor though.

How much do you know about turning the 2AZ to RWD, Dragon? I'm assuming custom oil pan, motor mounts, intake manifold turbo mani, and trans adapter plate. But what about the alternator location, etc..? And what transmission and rear diff are they using in the RWD tC's?

I've got a second Supra that has an oil burning 7M with 330,000km but a really good body that may be interesting to experiment, as I may be finally getting a garage to work in. I was originally thinking 3MZ, but the 2AZ would probably be quite a bit cheaper and is decently supported (after market internals are available.) Could be an interesting alternative to my 1JZ car, as the 2AZ will likely be WAY lighter. So making a bit less power will be offset by it lightening the car. And the car could end up handling a LOT better with the balance improvement.

(This would be considered blasphemy in the Supra community, but I've already got a 1JZ powered car so I should be safe from the flames...)

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

har har, no scroll mouse?
I know you most likely knew how but other people might not know so I put it up anyway.

I'm just giving you a hard time Matador .

No sweat dude.

Originally Posted by Dimman

How much do you know about turning the 2AZ to RWD, Dragon? I'm assuming custom oil pan, motor mounts, intake manifold turbo mani, and trans adapter plate. But what about the alternator location, etc..? And what transmission and rear diff are they using in the RWD tC's?

I've got a second Supra that has an oil burning 7M with 330,000km but a really good body that may be interesting to experiment, as I may be finally getting a garage to work in. I was originally thinking 3MZ, but the 2AZ would probably be quite a bit cheaper and is decently supported (after market internals are available.) Could be an interesting alternative to my 1JZ car, as the 2AZ will likely be WAY lighter. So making a bit less power will be offset by it lightening the car. And the car could end up handling a LOT better with the balance improvement.

(This would be considered blasphemy in the Supra community, but I've already got a 1JZ powered car so I should be safe from the flames...)

Sounds like blasphemy ...........







But at the same time this piques my interest.......

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

No sweat dude.



Sounds like blasphemy ...........







But at the same time this piques my interest.......

Some of Dragon's whp figures have intrigued me. The tC won't have as much drivetrain loss as the Supras which have big, heavy-duty transmissions, driveshafts, rear diffs, and axles, so the numbers may be a bit deceptive on a Supra.

That being said, a hell of a lot easier to get hands on a 2AZ (like a billion out there?), it is supported (thanks to... (choke...) Scion), and it will make the Supra handle WAY better from a weight/balance point of view. Plus the dual VVT-i and stroke may allow it to spool bigger turbos faster than a 1JZ, especially with a twin-entry hot side.

Similar in concept to the JGTC stroked 3SGTE-powered Supras.

Intriguing is the word. 'Outside the box' also applies.

"WTF is wrong with you dude??? A Camry motor in a Supra??? Put in a 2JZ!!!"

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

How much do you know about turning the 2AZ to RWD, Dragon? I'm assuming custom oil pan, motor mounts, intake manifold turbo mani, and trans adapter plate. But what about the alternator location, etc..? And what transmission and rear diff are they using in the RWD tC's?

I can't help you with the 2AZ specifically but I am a big fan of non-family engine swaps aka "bastard" swaps. I can tell you that unless there is a RWD version you will probably be looking at custom exhaust piping and rerouting the intake more than different manifolds. There's no reason to change the manifolds unless they physically don't fit. The oil pan depends on the subframe. You'll need engine mounts that fit too, those would need to be fabbed if the Supra mounts don't work. The transmission depends on whether or not you can get a bellhousing that matches or if there is a RWD transmission with the same exact bolt pattern. Adapter plates aren't a big deal, an expensive adapter is $300 and most of the cost is for design, the pilot shaft length is a bigger concern there. Unless the Supra bay is really short with the 2AZ the belt accessories will probably be fine as is.

There are quite a few variables that really depend on the engine and the engine bay, the biggest problem is meshing the engine ECU with the rest of the wiring that would kill most swaps even after everything else is done. New cars have a second Control Unit that handles the body controls. I know it can be done. But I'd exhaust other options swaps if you're looking for cheap and easy but not necessarily better.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I can't help you with the 2AZ specifically but I am a big fan of non-family engine swaps aka "bastard" swaps. I can tell you that unless there is a RWD version you will probably be looking at custom exhaust piping and rerouting the intake more than different manifolds. There's no reason to change the manifolds unless they physically don't fit. The oil pan depends on the subframe. You'll need engine mounts that fit too, those would need to be fabbed if the Supra mounts don't work. The transmission depends on whether or not you can get a bellhousing that matches or if there is a RWD transmission with the same exact bolt pattern. Adapter plates aren't a big deal, an expensive adapter is $300 and most of the cost is for design, the pilot shaft length is a bigger concern there. Unless the Supra bay is really short with the 2AZ the belt accessories will probably be fine as is.

There are quite a few variables that really depend on the engine and the engine bay, the biggest problem is meshing the engine ECU with the rest of the wiring that would kill most swaps even after everything else is done. New cars have a second Control Unit that handles the body controls. I know it can be done. But I'd exhaust other options swaps if you're looking for cheap and easy but not necessarily better.

A lot of the fab/machining me and my buddy will be able to do (75% chance I will be getting to rent a 3 car garage for cheap!!!). The intake manifold is the question, depending on what side the throttle body is on the FWD car, it could end up facing the firewall on a RWD placement.

I'm a machinist and my buddy's a welder. Plus I know a guy that does excellent wiring/piggy-back/standalone install/tuning for a fair price so that's not a big issue.

Now if Scion was promoting RWD conversions for tC's some of these could have been addressed. (RWD turbo manis for example...)

Doing it all from scratch adds a lot of time and a bit more money. Plus lots of swearing.

The plus side is if we do it all ourselves, and it's good, we could sell kits to ...open-minded Supra owners. (Obviously not in it to make money if I was trying to promote a Camry swap over a JZ swap to Supra owners...)

It's the handling benefit I'll be looking for. Maybe with 350whp (that seems to get mid-high 12s in Mk3s), that would be a pretty respectable Mk3 Supra that can actually handle REALLY well.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

That being said, a hell of a lot easier to get hands on a 2AZ (like a billion out there?), it is supported (thanks to... (choke...) Scion), and it will make the Supra handle WAY better from a weight/balance point of view. Plus the dual VVT-i and stroke may allow it to spool bigger turbos faster than a 1JZ, especially with a twin-entry hot side.

Similar in concept to the JGTC stroked 3SGTE-powered Supras.

Intriguing is the word. 'Outside the box' also applies.

"WTF is wrong with you dude??? A Camry motor in a Supra??? Put in a 2JZ!!!"

More displacement than a 2.2 3S, almost as much as a 1JZ, lighter than either, modern head design with dual VVT-i, cheap. Like I said.... interesting.

I'd still rather go 1UZ, but I like the idea and wouldn't mind seeing the outcome.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

More displacement than a 2.2 3S, almost as much as a 1JZ, lighter than either, modern head design with dual VVT-i, cheap. Like I said.... interesting.

I'd still rather go 1UZ, but I like the idea and wouldn't mind seeing the outcome.

1UZ has issues with needing to do weird exhaust manifold routing if you want to turbo them (been done though), and brake booster issues. (Do they need to be SC-sourced to fit the Supra crossmembers too?) Still pretty much my #2 fantasy swap after the 3MZ (yes really... seems like it would be the best compromise of 3300cc displacement, aluminum weight but still closed deck, modern VVT-i, 83mm shortish stroke for revs and bigger 92mm bore for valve area, and short 60 degree V6 for fitting. Plus haven't heard of it being done. But they are not super common or super cheap.). And 1UZs are becoming more common for swaps.

But 2AZs are way more available. And way lighter. Plus, unlike the 1UZ they have more readily available aftermarket internals for them thanks to (...choke...) Scion.

The 3MZ would make the Supra more like a Z though...

(^To tie in the derailment to the thread topic. Slightly. Heh...)

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

More displacement than a 2.2 3S, almost as much as a 1JZ, lighter than either, modern head design with dual VVT-i, cheap. Like I said.... interesting.

I'd still rather go 1UZ, but I like the idea and wouldn't mind seeing the outcome.

You guys wanna get a room?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

You guys wanna get a room?

I want to get an FT86. But it's not out yet, so I get sidetracked.

On topic, I don't want to get a 370Z, unless it was $10k-$15k cheaper, like the FT86 may be.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dimman

On topic, I don't want to get a 370Z, unless it was $10k-$15k cheaper, like the FT86 may be.

The other day I saw a brand new base 370Z auto marked down to $27k by the Nissan dealer close to me. If it was a manual I would have been very tempted by it, except I would probably want the sports package.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I want to get an FT86. But it's not out yet, so I get sidetracked.

On topic, I don't want to get a 370Z, unless it was $10k-$15k cheaper, like the FT86 may be.

There was a chicane yellow one with 15K miles for $26K by an Acura dealership near me, I was very tempted to pull the trigger. I hope the ft86 is worth the wait.